Iraq Study group

[39mto39g]

The study groups "Term" paper is due 'out' today.
A cut and paste from
http://www.usip.org/isg/


"In light of the importance of Iraq to United States interests and the future of the region, there is urgent need for a bipartisan, forward-looking assessment of the situation in Iraq.

At the urging of Congress, the United States Institute of Peace is facilitating the bipartisan Iraq Study Group, led by co-chairs James A. Baker, III, former secretary of state and honorary chairman of the James A. Baker III Institute for Public Policy at Rice University, and Lee H. Hamilton, former congressman and director of the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars. The Iraq Study Group will conduct a forward-looking, independent assessment of the current and prospective situation on the ground in Iraq, its impact on the surrounding region, and consequences for U.S. interests.

The United States Institute of Peace is facilitating the group with the support of the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS), the Center for the Study of the Presidency (CSP), and the James A. Baker III Institute for Public Policy at Rice University."

One of the recommendations is kinda funny, It is said to, "open a dialog with Syria and Iran"
Irans president has said that "a world without America is desirable and achievable." Now just what will we be talking about? How to do this , maybe?
One day we will wake up and stop trying to have a talk with our enemies.
Tonight at 8 is when the President will comment of the study.

Ron

[exlrrp]

Ron
One day we'll wake up and start talking to our enemies. The Bush administration has painted America into another box here (theyre good at that)
Right now, the Bush administration has said it won't talk to Iran untll Iran quits its nuclear efforts. Iran obviously is not going to do that--now what?
Remember when Bush allowed that one of his mistakes was talking too tough? This is what he was talking about, all that cowboy talk about dead or alive and axis of evil. More conservative fatmouthing with no regard for the consequences. What he meant is that he painted himself--and us--into a box. Complete diplomatic ineptness.
The Bush adminstration's entirely inept diplomatic policies have isolated America from the mainstream, estranged us from our allies and its phonied up evidence that took us into Iraq has sunk America's crediblity worldwide.
What we see now is that the Iraq war has raised Iran'standing enormously in the Middle East while our approval rating among Arabs is somewhere below Shaitan (look it up) We are now perceived as interlopers while theyre defending the faith. What th Iraq War has done is give power to Syria and Iraq--now their major players when once they were isolated.
The Bush adminstration's neoconservative's fantasies about spreading democracy to Iraq and beyond have prodiuced the worst situation for America perhaps ever--in a war we can't win and we can't leave, which is costing us billions a month-- estiomates range form $350 billioin to 2 trillion total. And all on the national Visa Card, too. The Republicans also killed Pay as You Go our children and grandchildren will be paying for this for decades to come.


This study group is mostly face saving--theyre not coming up with any real new answers, justy rehashing ideas the Democrats have beeen talking abot for some time--while the Republcians slash them for "cutting and running" whle pretending that we were "winning."
Turns out while BUsh said we were winning, all the time we were losing. Here's what Bush's new Sec of Defense said when they asked him if we were winning in Iraq: NO. Well, its onnly obvious.
No wonder the American people demanded a new direction last month, they're finally waking up to the fact that there never was anything good for them in this war, the claims of conservatives not withstanding and that there never was a winning strategy to win the war, the Republicans never understood what it took to win it.

Stay good, all
James

[39mto39g]

James
I would have to agree somewhat with what you said "The Bush adminstration's entirely inept diplomatic policies have isolated America from the mainstream, estranged us from our allies and its phonied up evidence that took us into Iraq has sunk America's crediblity worldwide. "
The problem with our ineptness started long before Bush, Probably in Korea when MacArthur wanted to drop a A-bomb on North Korea and Truman Fired him. Ever since then its like we were George Foreman and the rest of the world was Jerry Lewis, Jerry comes around and Kicks George and runs off. More and more Jerry's have stepped in for a Kick. some day we will have to either give up to the Jerry's of the world or Drop a few of them. I vote for the dropping of a few, and then a few more just cause we can.
Id talk to Iran the day after I leveled Tehran, you would get a little more respect on that day. Life in that part of the world would all of a sudden be easier.
Soon after that I would just point a finger at North Korea and smile.

Ron

[Robert Ryan]

After hearing the report this morning it seems that wanting the Iraqi to take over defending their country and keeping it safe sounds a lot a differenet program we heard. I believe it was called "Vietnamization" now just swap the begging of the word to Iraqimazation. And we all know how Vietnamization worked out.

[exlrrp]

Originally posted by 39mto39g James
I would have to agree somewhat with what you said "The Bush adminstration's entirely inept diplomatic policies have isolated America from the mainstream, estranged us from our allies and its phonied up evidence that took us into Iraq has sunk America's crediblity worldwide. "
The problem with our ineptness started long before Bush, Probably in Korea when MacArthur wanted to drop a A-bomb on North Korea and Truman Fired him. Ever since then its like we were George Foreman and the rest of the world was Jerry Lewis, Jerry comes around and Kicks George and runs off. More and more Jerry's have stepped in for a Kick. some day we will have to either give up to the Jerry's of the world or Drop a few of them. I vote for the dropping of a few, and then a few more just cause we can.
Id talk to Iran the day after I leveled Tehran, you would get a little more respect on that day. Life in that part of the world would all of a sudden be easier.
Soon after that I would just point a finger at North Korea and smile.

Ron

well, Ron, there's a lot of other just like you--sorta surprises me youre caling yourself a Democrat.
but what you seem to be advocating--nuclear responses-- is sort of like killing all the ants in a hill with a shotgun--you won't accomplish your objective but you sure will get them all riled up.
Youre forgetting certain facts--like Seoul and Pyongyang aren't that far apart. The last people wanting us to take out Pyongyang with nukes is the SOuth Koreans--I mean the 2d to last people.

It seems to me like we're in the classic Mexican Standoff with Iran and NK, the same place we were in Vnam--not talkiing to them. Thats what held up peace in the nam for years: our complete refusal to talk to a Communist regime. How many people got killed while they were trying to decide the shape of the table?
We did all our diplomacy throuh a Swiss embassy which passed it to the Polish embassy which forwarded it to Vnam. Sort of a Tinkers to Evers to Chance situation in a time that demanded direct face to face contact. Ultimately it WAS decided face to face so all the stalling to get to that point caused lives to be lost--LOTS of lives.
So Bush has gotten us into that same place, evidently having never understood the lessons of Vietnam. This is because he doesn't have ANY combat vets in his cabinet and the one that he did (Powell) advised him not to go into Iraq.
No combat or Vietnam vets at all in Bush's cabinet!! Oh yeah, he supports veterans all right. He picked a 5 times deffered draft dodger as his running mate. (with THREE DUIs between them!)

I can't believe how inept the Bush's administration's diplomacy has been. They can't claim triumphs in ANY area!! We're supporting the whole war in Iraq essentially by ourselves because Britain was the only major ally to go in with us. I mean other than Guatemala and Tonga. Remember all that happy talk?? Others will join when they see how successful we are? Don't hear any more of THAT do we?
The Bush adminstration has done the worst job diplomatically of any administration I've evr seen, there's nothing in my lifetime to compare with their ineptness.

re the Iraq Study Group. This whole thing was done to cover BUsh's ass for the worst mistake in American History. The Republicans desperately want a "Bi-partisan cover" now that the world has realized the magnitude of the disaster they've led us into.
Who put this group together? the Carlyle Group?
ANY solution to the Iraq War has to go through Bush, he's the one who implements policy. Pelosi doesn't command armies, Reid doesn't drive to work in a tank either.
What the Republicans are trying to do it focus on Whats Pelosi going to do about it?? But Pelosi isn't Co-President she's the speaker of the House--different duties, different responsiblities.
We need to keep the focus on Whats BUSH going to do about it.
He's the one responsible for starting this war and ultimately he's the one who will be responsible for ending it, assuming he doesn't cravenly abdicate that job to his successor---which it looks like he is gioing to do.

The war in Iraq is Bush's legacy. HE cherry picked the evidence, went against the only combat vet in his cabinet's advice to get us into it. Every one killed in ths war is his responsibility, which he will spend the rest of his life trying to duck.

Stay good, Ron
James

[39mto39g]

James
Choice in weapons for "Flattening" a city is far greater that a Nuke. My choise would most likely be 20-30 B-52's full of Napalm. And maybe a dozen Cruse missiles HE. Reolisticly, Our government is way to wishy-washy to ever commit to such an action, and what most people want is for us to talk our way out of any conflict with Iran. I just don't believe talking will ever do anything but embolden them. Ever try to talk to a wild boar? just ain't gona happen, you get away or kill it, cause it will kill you. No talking, no remorse, no feelings, no regret.
The reason I call myself a democrat is because I voted STRAIGHT democrat in the last election, that kinda qualifies me, I think.
Ron