The Frog's

[Boats]

Ron

Not many will denie that the French 200+ years ago helped us out but I'm sure they had other reasons for doing it. Even back then nobody did anything fo nothing. The had issues that were negoitiated I'm sure. We "American's" were going to pay for their help one way or the others. What were those issues well I'm sure there are better read people around than me that could enlighten us all - but I'm not the one.

By the way I had a French Grandmother on my ma's side. Marie Bloom - one hell of a great cook and Grandmother.

[39mto39g]

Boats

When The Constitution was being written, Ben Franklin was in France meeting with his fellow Freemason (the King of France) and got yet another loan from France. Two other deligates stayed behind while Ben with Loan in hand went to the United States to complete the Constitution, One deligate went the the Dutch to get recongnition from them as to the existance of the UNITED STATES. The British still controled Florida. The French controled from the Mississippi west to the seara moutan range excluding Texas.
The Spanish controld from the Rockies west and Mexico controled Texas , New mexico, colorado, arizona areas.
President Jefferson made the Louiesiana purchace from Napolian, Then the war of 1812, the second war between the British and us. Which ended in New Orlines. Jackson went to Florida and kicked ass over the Seminol Indians and the British and Floida was ours,
Sam Houston met Santa Ana after the Alamo at a area by the bay north of Galveston and after that the whole texas area was part of the US. The fight over Spanish control over California and north was almost non existant, we won? and Cal. was ours, The United States was as it is now.

[Boats]

You missed us buying Alaska from the Russian's. Don't know when that was but not toooooo long ago.

[Packo]

One other reason, and perhaps the biggest reason the Frogs helped us during the revolution, they have almost always been Englands mortal enemy and vice versa. They hated each other and anything to bring the English down a peg was a feather in their hat....until Waterloo. They had a huge secondary gain by helping us and again, the debt has been more than paid.

Pack

[Boats]

Makes you wonder how many French and English and others left their old countries to come here and start a better way of life.
This country is a mixed bag of immigrants. More come each year. I wonder if they come for the same reasons our ancestors did?

[39mto39g]

Boats
Thats newer history, as is Hawaii.



Pac
Yes the French were enemies with GB and probibly contributed and may have been the most important reason to the French. Just that, when Ben went and asked for help from is fellow feemasson that he (Ben) sponcored, the help was given and for what reason that will have to be a french thing to know. Kinda like you asking Mr. Coors for tickets, There may have been many reasons, but the friendship was most likely the one reason. Washington was also a freemasson.


Ron

[rotorwash]

Ron, a few things I have to disagree with.

The French that helped us 1777-1783 were Catholic Royalists under King Louis XVI, not a Freemason in the bunch. He lost his head in 1789, after that no American government felt they owed France anything. When Citizen Genet representing revolutionary France arrived to present his credentials to Prez Washington, he was met in a bare room with only a table and a bust of King Louis XVI. It was a short cold meeting.

Of the $6,350,000 borrowed from France, the first $500,000 was given by the Farmers General, a private organization, not Freemasons. About half was arranged by John Adams in the Netherlands. Neither Adams or the Dutch bankers were Freemasons.

Another $2,000,000 was provided as direct military aid shipped through the Dutch island of St. Eustatius under the direction of a French playright, de Beaumarchais, also not a Freemason.

All of the French aid was arranged by the French Foreign Minister Vergennes, certainly not a Freemason.

Spain, also a Catholic Royalist country provided another $400,000 in military aid shipped through New Orleans and Cuba. They provided another $250,000 in direct loans through American ministers to Spain, Pollack and Jay.

All of this money was paid back to the satisfaction of the Spanish and the Royalist government of France starting in 1784. The idea that financing the American Revolution brought on the French Revolution is patently incorrect.

Sorry guys, your duckies are out of line. Politics and diplomacy of the American Rev is my major area of study.

Rotorwash

[39mto39g]

Roto
I never said any of these people were Freemasons except 2, The ones that count, Ben Franklin went to France to ask the Guy who Ben had sponsored in his initiation as a freemason that would be the king.
I also never said that we didn't pay the loan back, we did.
When Your a king you don't go fight in a war , You send people to fight, who or what religion the people were, I have no Idea except that they were French. The King didn't loan the money to Ben he authorized it to be loaned. When your king and you say loan the money, the money gets loaned.
I don't have any ducks and I could give a shit about the French. Maybe a little more study about Ben Franklin and the Freemasons would help YOU.


Ron

[SuperScout]

Just give it up! You've been out-thought, out-spelled, out-historied, and out-reasoned. Pull the plug and start another thread.

[39mto39g]

ss
That is an opinion, Not a very good on, but an opinion never the less. I would say that you to look into Ben Franklin relationship with Freemason and The King of France, You will find that again, just because you say something don't make it so.
And , once again, I don't come to your threads and spout negative about what you write, (That would be easy by the way) so why do you do it on my thread, Either stop doing it on mine or I will trash yours.
you have a nice day


For all the normal people out there, a site that will explain the reason Franklin went to France and the treaty and aliance.

http://www.benfranklin300.org/exhibi.../5_3/index.htm

A nother history that is a little long but interesting
Benjamin_Franklin
One last sit
Famous Free Masons around the world.
http://www.calodges.org/no406/FAMASONS.HTM
(Turn your sound down)

Super RON