Helicopters

[frisco-kid]

Leg [known as "One Six" here] posted these numbers over on the Vietnam site of THC. I thought they would be interesting here after our "Door Gunner" thread.


Interesting stats about USA, USN, USCG, USAF & USMC helicopters in Vietnam.

1) 3,932,000 attack (gunship) sorties (a sortie is 1 combat flight by 1 helicopter) were flown.
2) 7,547,000 were assault sorties
3) 3,548,000 were cargo and ash & trash sorties
4) 21,098,000 were C&C, Arty observation, battlefield recon, SAR, and assorted other sorties
5) 10 helicopters were lost over North Vietnam
6) There were 2,066 helicopters lost due to hostile action over South Vietnam
7) 2,566 helicopters were lost from non-hostile action
8) 668 pilots and 1,471 aircrew were lost to hostile action.
9) 401 pilots and 994 aircrew were lost from non-hostile causes.

Source: The Vietnam War Almanac


I find it interesting that more choppers FELL out of the sky than were SHOT out of the sky. I saw 2-3 shot down. One guy in my company was killed in one shot down on a hot LZ we went into near Duc Pho.

This thread sparked a discussion on Air Medals. I didn't know one grunt in the 101st that got an Air Medal while I was with them. Hackworth, and probably the other battalion commanders, got several Air Medals. I don't think our platoon leaders or CO's got them, either. This changed after the rest of the division came over. Bill was awarded 3. 1 for 25 CA's and 1 for each hot LZ he went into. If that was the requirements, I was probably good for 3-4. Nobody kept track for us.

One Six said that none of the 1st ID guys got them while he was with them. About every 1st Cav trooper that I ever met received theirs. How about you other grunts? What was the criteria in your unit? As a door gunner, I know Andy must have a couple. Were they based on flying hours for the pilots and crew Andy?

[Packo]

Frisco,

Got 2, well an Oak Leaf Cluster for the second. The Cav seemed to do a good job of keeping track but even then I think it was probably more of a Company Level deal. 40+ CA's and the time I spent with the 128th Assault Helicopter Co added up to over 50 but under 75. All the 101 guys I know are old guys like you, James, and Dan. I know Dan never got one but don't know if that changed when you guys went Air Mattras.....I mean Airmobile.

BP 134/84 My Doctor is happy as a clam and so am I! Begin the Zyban monday......Independence Day!

Pack

[Stick]

Air medal was another gimme medal like the ACM, Bronze Star, Good Conduct, and even the PH in some units. Spent three weeks in Korea and got a UN Service medal. Who gives a hoot? Gotta couple AM's just because we took off and landed a few times. Got out breathing. That's what counts. Still pissed about that missing PH though.

[Bill Farnie]

Tom,
I think when the 101st went Airmobile they just copied how the 1st Cav awarded AM?s. Not sure how many more CA?s during my tour we made. My citation for the 25 CA?s is for the time period Sept. 68? to May 69?. Of course we made a lot more although when we went into the A Shau May 69? we did more walkin? then flyin?. We also hit more hot LZ?s too but because the first lift in called them cold and Charlie didn?t hit us until the second or third lift came in, the AM wasn?t awarded for them with the exception of the CA on July 10th 69?, although all the members of the 4th platoon, the platoon who called it cold, didn?t get an AM for that hot LZ. At my regiments reunion in 2002 we talked about AM?s and one guy from my old company who left Nam sometime in 70? received 14 AM?s.

I bet if you pursued the issue with Perscom, you could get the AM?s you deserve.

[Andy]

Like I keep saying, different times, different units, different rules.
If we loaded up with grunts and went into Indian Country that counted as a Combat Assault (1). If we took fire, if we got shot down, it still counted as one flight. For every 25 CA?s you received an Air Medal, pretty straight forward, simple rules, however, that was the 25th during 1968.

Quick stories about choppers crashing without gunfire. While landing on the Black Virgin Mountain with cross winds that were terrible. Our pilot over compensated and the tail router landed first. The chopper was filled with at least 50 cases of beer and this was the rainy season (card board boxes were soft). We landed mostly on our side and hundreds of beer cans started rolling down the hill. Not a lot of people came to our slick to check on us, they were all running down the mountain collecting beer.

Another time Tay Ninh was under rocket attack and ground probes. The 187th sent up a chopper full of air flares, the big suckers, stacked one on another. Somehow one of the flares in the bottom of the pile had it?s pin pulled. The guys in the bay area were un-assing the flares as fast as they could. The pilot went into a dive but the light from the flares was so bright and reflected off the ?windshield? and dashboard so the pilot couldn?t see his instruments or see outside the chopper. Listening to that on the radio was one of the saddest things I ever did. The pilot was doing at least 80 knots when they ran into the ground. All the crew were killed and cremated.

Paco: BP as of Thursday, 94 over 71.
Stay healthy,
Andy

[exlrrp]

By Andy's definition I would have had 3 or 4 Air Medals but they just didn't give em to grunts in the 101st while I was in it, nor the lrrps neither. Nobody I served with got one, we all thought they were for flight crew. Sht, I was lucky just to get a CIB and I had to apply 3 times for that!
The most helicopters I saw shot down in 1 day was 3. The last one was bringing in ammo and was chock full of it. self and couple other guys ran up and started offloading it under fire--was pulling boxes of ammo off while shreds of the slick wer hitting me. This was one of those times when I felt like I was in slow motion when I was actually moving at about the speed of light. Seems like your mind just races while everything else is in slo-mo. It wasn't a brave thing, just did it because I was out of ammo.
I was in plenty of helicopters taking rounds, couldn't even tell how many now. In one of the slicks that pulled us out of a hot LZ they counted 35 bullet holes.

Stay good
James
Happy just to be alive!

[revwardoc]

Stick,

Air Medal, a gimme!? Thanks alot guy! That was my one and only decoration that wasn't squadron or wing realted. Not that I got it in combat or anything. I had to put the safety pin into the starboard landing gear of a C-141 in flight because of what turned out to be a faulty indicator. Of course, the only reason I did it was because I was the lowest ranking (aka: expendable)enlisted man aboard, but it was done in the line of duty.

[MarineAO]

Originally posted by revwardoc Stick,

Air Medal, a gimme!? Thanks alot guy! That was my one and only decoration that wasn't squadron or wing realted. Not that I got it in combat or anything. I had to put the safety pin into the starboard landing gear of a C-141 in flight because of what turned out to be a faulty indicator. Of course, the only reason I did it was because I was the lowest ranking (aka: expendable)enlisted man aboard, but it was done in the line of duty.

I was on a C-141B that the air crew had to do that on. We were in route from MCAS Beaufort, SC to MCS Twentynine Palms, CA when we were approaching the EAF at the Stumps we hear the gear go down then up then down a few times. Then over the PA we hear that we are going to Travis AFB for repairers. on the approach to Travis the gear repeats the down up thing a few more times, then a Aircrew member comes down the aisle between us in jump seats with a big pin and a bigger hammer and opens a hatch and we hear the wind howling and then this crewman starts hammering this pin into a hole to lock the gear in place for landing. We landed at Travis and had to spend the night there while repairs were made on the bird. Of course we as Marines were restricted to the barracks we were put in and not allowed off the base or in the base clubs. Damn Air Force always dose that to Marines they didn't want us steeling their women.

[Andy]

Some African scrawled on the wall of a pyramid, about 4,000 years ago, the words, ?To your own self be true?. Pretty interesting words. If you don?t mind the guy your looking at in the mirror when you shave, your doing ok.

However, it has seemed to me, for a few years now, the 101st had some pretty crappy staff officers in Vietnam. Can?t imagine what took up so much of their time that you and no doubt many others didn?t get what you deserved. A CIB took about 35 years to get because of a 101st ?oversight?? Have no idea why you didn?t get other decorations you no doubt Earned, it sucks.

About the only thing I can think of as obscene as you not getting your decorations is a couple of pilots who were forever putting each other in for Silver Stars when they didn?t do anything to deserve them.

Stay healthy,
Andy

[1CAVCCO15MED]

I can't help but believe hell is chock full of officers and NCO's that betrayed their men. I met a few good officers and exactly one good NCO. Andy, good BP! I think Paco's head has quit pulsating with each heartbeat now. He's kind of old to have a soft spot, I think.