Preaching To The Wrong Choir!!

[HARDCORE]

This thing in the Middle East started out with our President proclaiming aloud that the United States was going to exact a terrible revenge for the actions of 9/11! Almost immediately (and from me too I might add), a rumble went up that President Bush should first seek the approval of Congress before conducting a war!! "This was, I believed, the way that things were done!?"

The President has continually sought the approval of the United Nations on a matter that dealt with an outright [aggressive] act of violence against our (U.S.) sovereign territory by a nation [or ideology if you prefer] that has vowed to perform an instant replay should they get the chance again!? "The people involved in the attacks of September 11, in reality, declared war upon us!!"

Granted, the President did (if not in so many words) referred to the UN as "Wishy-Washy" (and that they are, in my opinion)! He also vowed to act alone if needs must, but later put the matter before the UN, and that (in my opinion) was akin to begging permission of the "Penguins of Antarctica" to drop Big Boy in 1945.

For the record, ?I didn't think that one needed anyone?s permission to strike back against he who took the first shot?, especially permission from a body of nations, a few of whom require months of debate to decide what color toilet paper to use during a bout of collective diarrhea!!? Hell, in my opinion a few of these ?UN Speed-Demons? would have waited until 1945 to retaliate for Pearl Harbor, ?AND BY THEN? - well you get the idea!!

Had it been any other international powers that was attacked on 9/11, they might have acted far differently than they now expect us to. But we here in the United States have backed ourselves into an unenviable corner, in that we can no longer act [even in our own defense], without first seeking the permission of the ?New Boys From Brazil" [UN]

It is not the ?United Nations? that the President had to convince that U.S. military might was needed to defend U.S. Territory, U.S. Interests, or even U.S. Lives when viciously attacked, but rather, the People of the United States, the Congress of the United States, and He Himself, as the President of the United States!

If we bow to the collective will of the United Nations on matters of domestic security and survival, have we not surrendered at least part of our sovereignty, the initiative, and our right to self-defense to Kofi Annon, the UN Security Council and (yes) even the enemy himself! And for the record, how often has this very same Security Council ever totally agreed on anything in the past?

Decisions that revolve totally around foreign affairs may require world consensus, but when it is your house that is being invaded, and you are face to face with the armed and hyped-up thug that is threatening your sanctuary, you don?t take the time to seek the permission of some foreign fantasyland (UN) to do what you have to do to protect your own family! And make no bones about it, we here in America are (for the most part) just that - all family!

?You can not, after all, expect an outsider (even a friendly one) to genuinely appreciate the same sense of urgency that you would feel in such a critical situation!?

VERITAS

[Boats]

Hardcore,

I totally agree. I only wish others would as well. We should know which direction we are going in a very short time. I only hope that the escalation that results is something we can contain.

If we hit them with a "real big stick" that may get their attention and the other's who've been pulling strings. When we commit we better let the guns go and the field officers unload whatever is needed to send the signal - that they are in big trouble.

Our backsides have been spanked by petty little nobody's and our reaction time has not been good. We also need to send as strong a signal as possible to those who would press us.

It's coming real soon. Let's see what we do shortly after we commit ourselves into the theater of action. We have all sorts of new weapons I'm sure we dying to test out on someone.

I'd love to slap these jokes to sleep after all the bs we've taken.
I only hope the American people will not jump to conclusions befor we've had time to make the point.

[HARDCORE]

Well said, Boats!!

[reconeil]

Unarguably well stated and making a-hell-a-lot-of-sense.

Still, and color me stupid or whatever,...I find it absolutely mindboggling that ANY WINNER has to ask ANY LOOSER permission to inspect ANYTHING. No such absurd nonsense has ever before occured in history (that I know of anyway). Also, that The Powers that be (UN inclusive) don't think such nonsense absurd,...is also mindboggling and not very reassuring, to say the least.

Furthermore, if as stated by FDR that: "...a state of war EXISTS", given 500 or so less American Bodies than "9/11" produced, and quite differently combattants to-boot at Pearl Harbor,...why should America now foolishly need war-validating from The UN (anyone else for that matter) for defending itself and destroying a cowardly and sneak-attacking murderers and targetters of non-combattant men, women and children?
Have we gone nuts with this sanctimoniously-asinine and nationally-suicidal political-correctness,...even in warfare? Surely seems so to me.

Neil

P.S. Boats.....re. "Hope we have time to make the points".

Unfortunately Friend, the only place I see "The Points" needed being stated over and over, are here on This Forum. The rest of The Country pretty-much gets the same old political B.S. accustomed to.

[Seascamp]

Hardcore,

I agree with the position stated but I wish to present a bit of a different view of what I believe is coming down and what has come down. Like it or not, the US has the unenviable task of dragging this lazy, self-centered world along on this journey to War. Reality knocks, in fact a mediaeval, blood drenched so-called religion has most of the world in denial, pissing their pants and shaking in their boots. No one wants to get on the wrong side of Saddam, OBL or the house of Sa?ud. But big surprise, the indiscriminate blood bath has gone on, is going on and will continue to go on unless it is stopped cold and I mean dead cold. As country after country bags up their dead and cleans up the gory blast aftermath, they need to learn to do something besides wring their hands, externalize responsibility, and play at trying to be smarter than the situation. If the world would only listen, countries like Algeria and Bahrain have already been through the Islamic fundamentalist horror and won their war and can tell the tale. They did so by ruthlessly cleaning out the rat?s nests of rabid excuses for human beings and that?s a fact, check it out. It?s no small wonder that the US has a ton of secret friends in the Arabian Gulf region including having a large contingent of the US Navy Med fleet based in Bahrain. The vast majority of the Gulf States know the real story, for sure, but they need to know that they will not be left to twist slowly in the wind by a fickled world.

So if the US has to pound the UN unmercifully and shame them into action then so be it and I?m for it. And no, I do not see the current administration playing ?mother may I? with the lazy, arrogant nitwits at the UN, but rather, I see them dragging the unwilling lazy-assed cowards across the line in the sand and getting some sign-up. It?s time to fish or cut bait and I?m perfectly OK with any measures necessary to get people out of the grand stands and on the playing field, you bet. So notwithstanding my opinionated jet blast, I believe we?re on the same page, at least I hope so.

Scamp

Oh Boats, FYI

Bill,
Former PO1, USN
7th Fleet Operation Market Time,
RVN, 66-68.