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Old 01-28-2004, 07:49 PM
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Default Marksmanship, Vietnam, and the 2nd Amendment

How many of you learned to shoot when you were growing up?
Did your familiarity with firearms help you in training and in combat?
Is the 2nd Amendment still necessary and valid?

The Vietnam vets in this forum grew up in an America (pre-1968) that had no restrictions on the purchase of rifles and pistols, at least in most states. Firearms were not an "evil thing", and recreational shooting was commonplace and not thought of in a bad light.

As a child I got cap guns for Christmas just about every year. When I was six I shot a "real" gun for the first time... a twenty-two rifle. My Dad taught me firearms safety and he and I went shooting regularly. At thirteen I had my first firearm.. a Remington single shot twenty two rifle. The deal was, when Dad and I went shooting there had to be no serious safety mistakes. If I could do that for a full year he would buy me whatever twenty-two I wanted. I still have that rifle.

At eighteen I had a S&W Model 15 target .38 Special and was reloading for it, casting my own bullets in a single cavity mould out of broken wheel weights that I earned by sweeping out the local tire shop.
That same year increased my gun collection by two... an almost mint condition 1903 Springfield, purchased for $49.95 and a little later an M1 Garand (so new it had cosmoline still in the stock) that I got for $69.95.

When I went in the Army in 1968 I already had almost three years of service rifle competition under my belt...mostly the standard SR course at ranges of 200, 300, and 600 yards, and a couple of times at the 1,000 yard range.
Military service was new and unfamiliar. But even so, there was one aspect of it in which I was totally confident. And you now know what that is, and why.
I was active in shooting until 1995..when the eyes and the back started protesting.

I always loved my relationship with firearms and I always will. Each time, through the years, that we have lost our firearms rights, my heart has fallen a little. Not for anything I lost...no one can take away what I have had...but for what our children today won't have, or know.

Do we still need the 2nd amendment? If this country should ever come under the control of a tyrannical government that has control of our high-tech military machine, I don't see how any number of civilians with civilian weapons can do much about it.

Airborne! Steve / 82Rigger
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Old 01-28-2004, 08:39 PM
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Timely topic indeed!

Some of my fondest childhood memories are of my Dad and my two older brothers and the marksmanship/target practice/safety fun we had at the total cost of a few rounds of .22 shorts, some old tin cans, and a pump action Remington rifle, still in my possession. When I went to BCT, I knew about the basics, but did have to learn a new sighting technique, as the sights on the .22 were different than the M-14 in Basic. I would like to believe that the early "hip-shooting" style my Dad taught us was put to good use in the Land of the Live-fire Exercise.

One pre-Christmas time, we were supposed to earn some of our own spending money, money that we would then spend on others' gifts. But the payoff of selling tons of Christmas cards, in a very sparsely populated neighborhood, where most of our neighbors were of the Mexican persuasion, and couldn't speak much English, and had even less use for English-only Christmas cards, I earned a matched pair of The Lone Ranger pistols, complete with semi-genuine leather holsters, and two whole boxes of caps! And a color photo of the LR to boot!!

I too mourn the erosion of the 2nd Amendment. Most of the weapons in my possession were acquired in ways that can never be traced, all legal I hasten to add. Hopefully never, but there is no guarantee that we will not see a tyrannical government here that needs to be overthrown, just as Jefferson et. al. warned.
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Old 01-28-2004, 09:09 PM
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I grew up hunting jackrabbits every year at my grandfather's house in Eagle Rock, CA. For those not familiar with that area, you can look down at the Rose Bowl from my Pap's old house. Needless to say, not much rabbit hunting goes on there anymore.
My Gramps spent 30 years on the LAPD, retired a Capt. I still have his service revolver that Colt specially made for him and his shield. Someday they will go to my son along with a newspaper clipping about the ONLY time he ever came under fire. I am sure glad that the "gun laws" were not in affect at that time. He wouldn't have survived his ordeal if he didn't have that revolver.

I'll be damned if I'm going to give up my "persuader" (10 gauge, pistol grip). My husband is still in the reserves and is sometimes away from home two weeks at a time. Before he leaves we go over every detail of security. My friend is never far from my side. I've had too many creepy moments in my life to take any chances. Are the politicians going to come to save me when the drunk's car breaks down on the road near my home and he thinks its his right to break into my home and treat himself to whatever? NO!
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Old 01-28-2004, 11:16 PM
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Growing up I lived in two worlds. One was the "big city" of Newark N.J. and when the summer came and school was out I couldn't wait to go to the second, Grandma's house in rural Pennsylvania. That's were I learned to shoot and hunt and it helped me a lot in basic and AIT and then Nam. I only own one weapon and that's an old 12 Ga. Mossberg pump shotgun. We sure as hell need to have the 2nd Amendment. The framers knew what they were doing. Damn it's the Second Amendment for crying out loud not 22nd. They felt it was that important.
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Old 01-28-2004, 11:17 PM
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Guns

My grandmother and her sister lived together on a farm. They were very old and had no running water or electricity because they had never had it. Their mentality was rooted firmly in the 19th century in that they did not trust a lot of machines. They also did not trust others strangers preparing their food because they did not believe they were as clean as they should be. They lived on a dirt road that maybe got a car going up it every two hours but they lived in terror of me being run over on the "pike". But men hunted for food and I was eight years old so I could take the old 20 guage and hunt rabbits or squirrels for supper. The taught me the rules of gun safety and turned me loose, that is after they had watched with apprehension until I got across the "pike". I also had to butcher them up after killing them, only killing enough for a "mess". Guns were nothing but a tool to me. Vietnam changed all that and I don't touch them now.
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Old 01-29-2004, 02:25 AM
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I grew up in the city and never handled a fire arm untill basic training. At the time it was the M-1 rifle and I hated that hard kicking monster. I weighed just 135 lbs, over the years I nearly doubled in weight and developed a love of shooting. I have not been able to hunt game since I returned from Vietnam, how ever I enjoy shooting at the range.
I shoot large caliber rifles off hand, all military surplus and am a fair shot. The 2ND Amendment means a lot to me and I support it completely.
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Old 01-29-2004, 04:43 AM
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Any attempt by any President of the USA to limit gun ownership or propose national registration should prompt anyone with an IQ over 22 to fight. There are maybe 110 million unregistered guns of all types in the USA. I hope it stays that way.



>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

In Germany, before the Jews and other "undesirables" were rounded up into the camps, gun registration was in place. To quote Aaron Zelman, president of the Jews for the Protection of Firearms Ownership, "If you were to study the Weimar Republic example, you'd see that do-good, feel-good folks felt that if they registered and created a permit system, they could make sure that criminals didn't have guns. The Nazis came to power and took over the registration lists. You can't have confiscation without registration. You have to know where the guns are." Then they passed a law banning those firearms - and came collecting. The people being disarmed, the Nazis started the ghettos and work camps. They did the same thing with the Poles, finding their gun owner registry and confiscating firearms. I would note, however, that Hitler left the Swiss alone. Not by politics, or a respect for their neutrality, but of fear of their citizens - who were all firearms owners, and trained in their use. The prospect against fighting not just an army but every man, woman, and child in Switzerland kept them free, fat, and happy - and enormously prosperous. In 1918, the Communists in the new Soviet Socialist Republics also began a gun-registration plan, and soon came knocking.
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Old 01-29-2004, 10:39 AM
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Default Guns

At the age of 10 I had a winchester 97 pump 12 gage and all the shells I wanted. About 10,000 casulties latter, (sarrows, blue jays, robin, draggon fly, spiders, etc. I quit and joined the Army.

Ron
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Old 01-29-2004, 11:58 AM
VIETNAM 1968 VIETNAM 1968 is offline
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Thumbs up The Second Amendment and what it means to me:

I am a firm believer in every person's right to own, and carry, Firearms; provided it is done for legitimate and legal purposes. Like Andy, I have made a living by carrying a sidearm and fortunately I have not had to use mine in twenty-four years. I hope my luck holds out for about three more years. With today's society getting more and more violent however, I have less and less optimism that I will be able to Retire without having to defend myself or someone else before doing so.

The key to keeping the Second Amendment is for Courts to enforce the LAWS ALREADY ON THE BOOKS. Not having lawmakers create any new ones or attempt to take away a law abiding citizens right to keep and bear arms through confiscation. Most states now have laws which ban Felons, Mentally Incompetent, and others who routinely abuse others in their households, from owning or carrying firearms. Unfortunately THE COURTS do not provide adequate punishment for violators, and routinely return them to the neighborhoods, without any degree of insurance that those violators will not go right back out and endanger others again, after leaving the courtroom.

Hardly a week does not go by, where a Street Punk has not been arrested; and then found to be carrying, or has access to, a firearm here in New Bedford. We have a Law in Massachusetts which MANDATES A ONE YEAR JAIL TERM, WITHOUT ANY POSSIBLE PAROLE, for anyone arrested with a Firearm and NOT PROPERLY LICENSED. I have yet to see any of these Street Punks actually go away for the one year sentence however, although they usually are found guilty of some form of Firearm Violation. Firearms Licenses can easily be obtained by any Law Abiding Citizen, but almost impossible to obtain if the person has a previous Felony Court conviction, a history of Mental Illness, or abusive to others in their family.

It is not the Law Abiding Citizen that is the problem. The problem lies with keeping firearms away from the people who have no legal right to possess them in the first place. Only complete and unwavering enforcement of laws now on the books will insure that the Second Amendment does not disappear from our Bill of Rights.

In conclusion, we don't need new Firearms Laws; just the complete enforcement of laws ALREADY ON THE BOOKS! To all my Vietnam Veteran Brothers and Sisters I again state:


WELCOME HOME


VIETNAM 1968
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Old 01-29-2004, 12:06 PM
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My uncle was a Delaware State Trooper and had a pretty awesome gun collection.He had me shooting by the time I was 8.Got my first rifle,a Winchester 1892? 32/20 when I was 12.Haven`t been without since-wouldn`t feel right.
Second Ammendment?"...."From my cold,blue hands!"
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