For those with an open mind about "Global Warming"

[MORTARDUDE]

For anyone wanting to listen to a contrary view to all the "Global Warming" hype, here is a great web link.

http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVF.../ice_ages.html


I find this quote on the mark :

"...Climate change is controlled primarily by cyclical eccentricities in Earth's rotation and orbit, as well as variations in the sun's energy output.

"Greenhouse gases" in Earth's atmosphere also influence Earth's temperature, but in a much smaller way. Human additions to total greenhouse gases play a still smaller role, contributing about 0.2% - 0.3% to Earth's greenhouse effect...."

Anyway, there are those on here with their minds made up, so this is not for them. Anyone who questions what the world news media is pushing, should at least read this.

Larry

[39mto39g]

Cow poo does more harm then cars.
Mater of fact, did you ever go down the road and see trees along the road that all the branches were leaning toward the road, that is because plants breath in CO2 , and what the car gives off is CO or Carbon Monoxide, which the plants just convert and use.

The reason sometimes, plants grow better when you talk to them is not the talk, It's the CO2 in your breath that helps them.

Our planet is a very changing place all threw recorded history there have been climate changes and even extremes but that was mostly contributed to our planets wobble on it's axes while circling the sun.
Our putting more CO in the air doesn't do anything to Earth, It could do something to humans with the increase/decrease in the ozone layer and the hole in it in the south pole. But that are effects , what, 7 people.

If people would just look at the big picture instead of one year they would realize that all this has no effect on earth but only on humans. Long after Humans have killed each other off and all the animals have died and the oceans have dried up, Earth will still be hear, and rotating around the sun without a care.

When the oceans heat up and melt the ice, more water is put into the system which makes more rain/snow which makes more Ice. It just takes a few years.

Ron

[Seascamp]

Larry,
I would agree that an open mind is important and reckon that available information is key to sorting the flyshit from the pepper. And more importantly, available information is invaluable in defusing the charlatans that focus on part of the story at the expense of the whole story.
For example; the Northeast has a great abundance of really old power plants that are grandfathered in and subject only to the requirements local operating permits that specifically list stack emission limits on all manner of pollutants, not just carbons. One minor upgrade as simple as painting the boilers with a thermal jacketing paint and kazaaaam, that plant is subject to what is called BACT or Best Available Control Technology and would be required and mandated to put all kinds of up-grades that go from fuel processing to turbine efficiency to stack gas scrubbers, on and on the list goes.

Usually the only realistic remedy is to knock the place down to the foundation and start over. I have personally seen NE power plants with turbine name plate dates stating 1919, 1924, 1937, etc. and have seen incredibly obsolete systems like moving grate coal burners under the boilers and still in operation. But so long as they meet local regs; with the emphasis on ?local?, and don?t install any up-grades, there will be continued operation. That is until the fed gavel drops and the grandfather status is revoked. When I hear of any of the NE States offering to get taken off line and off the grid, then I?ll know we have something to deal with. But so far, I don?t see any raised hands or any NE local-regional agencies looking to ?Gore? their own ox.

My belief set is that we need to come to terms with our overall energy footprint as a Country and as individuals and that is achievable. Pitching money down some disingenuous and useless UK rat hole just because ?thinkprogress? and Gore front them is not an answer, it?s part of the problem.

[QM3steve]

There has been some heated discussion locally about renewable energy sources. A large company came in and set forth plans to build a wind farm. Wind is one of the most reliable energy sources. The wind farm would have been small and out of the way of the public. The town came out and didn't want these "unsightly" towers. Because "there are too many cell towers already." Now, a town will allow a junk yard on the side of a main highway but an unsightly tower is out of the question. Towns came up with rediculous ordinances to prevent these wind farms, ie; acceptable noise levels that were so low that the sound of the actual wind was louder.

Personal wind towers are popping up here and there. Making electricity and selling the excess back to the power companies.

[Seascamp]

Apparently the Kennedy Clan is like-minded and is fighting a proposed Nantucket Sound wind farm hammer and tongs. I guess they figure it?s unsightly also and prefer the more picturesque Venezuelan crude oil tankers coming into port and then fronting for Hugo?s cause, for a fee or cut of the action, most likely.
I sincerely hope the Kennedy Clan is buying copious amounts ?offsets? from the UK guilt money banditos, as that is a true benzene ring, snake head locked to snake tail closed loop.

I did visit a mid west wind farm a few months back as part of a recovery project and that was unsightly and eye-watering pure carnage. Evidently the farm operator; in Germany, zigged when he should have zagged, didn?t feather the prop correctly, the wind turbine committed suicide, and in the coming apart phase, the tower fell on the wind farm sub station thus knocking out the entire field, oh my. :ek:
The 48 three inch diameter foundation pedestal bolts were snapped like pretzel sticks, good grief, thus giving a new appreciation for wind power.

Lots of product development money going into wind technology and like preceding technologies, there are yet to be encountered pitfalls, problems and cultural resistance. The biggest operating wind turbine to date is off the Irish coast and has a prop span about the length of a football field and so far, so good.

Scamp

[MORTARDUDE]

I don't know much about the wind farms. Are they really a good source of power versus something like nuclear ? If so, the middle of the country would seem wide open for something like this.

Larry

[Keith_Hixson]

We have wind farms all over Eastern Washington. Seem to be a good source of energy.

Keith

[QM3steve]

Amazingly enough, for a small town area, the $$$ makes a large impact. There are several "high-class" individuals who put the kabosh on new age ideas. They tend to keep the old fuddy-duddy attitude. These same people are the ones who have kept change out of Cooperstown. Pizza Hut was not allowed to build. Burger King was told "stay out". But, we can expand the baseball parks and fields outward 40 miles. We have a "Cooperstown All-Star field" in Oneonta, 35 miles from Cooperstown. $$$ talks. All the buisnesses cater to the baseball community and high dollar tourists.

The amount of "unsightlyness" is determined by those same people. Looking down their nose, I can't quite see how they would be able to look at a wind tower on a hilltop. The concept of "not in my backyard" applies here.

[Seascamp]

Though many, many, years old, wind technology is still growing in fits n? starts and is viable. An achievable, realistic, and reliable wind generator produces about 1.5 mW. A small gas turbine co-gen plant produces about 50 mW, a medium range ?peaker? combined cycle produces 100mW and base load fossil and nuke plants produce 1000 mW. About 10% of US power needs are met by hydro plants and the lion?s share of that coming out of the Pacific Northwest.

Dependent on what was specified and who manufactures the equipment, the control equipment for even the smallest co-gen is either duplex or triplex in design and for a wind farm a duplex or triplex control system has to be replicated on a per turbine basis so that gets real pricy and complex. And if the power generation authority isn?t used to managing multiple energy sources, wind is a real challenge. Plus, and at present, the kWh production costs for a wind farm are way up there and often well beyond local rate caps that can be charged. Both wind and solar power have the added challenge of energy storage so there is the added complexity of something like a pump storage unit where the wind or solar energy is used to pump-fill a water reservoir that is, in turn, used to run a hydro turbine. But the good news is that all this technology exists and is in operation here and there. The bad news is that most of the equipment has to be imported. Most of the wind turbines or solar cells are American designed but went to off shore manufacturing long, long, ago.

There is a bit of a re-birth going on with nuke technology but there are too many politicos that owe there soul to the anti-nuke crowd, so I wouldn?t expect any significant momentum to gather in that sector, at least currently. At present, Europe has over 120 operating nuke plants and our fleet of 30 is aging rapidly and as soon as those get taken off the grid, we?ll see more tankers bringing in ?Saudi light? to fill the gap and more of the ?end is neigh?, buy your ?carbon credits? today, kind of thing going on.
At last check and sometime back, there is one power plant complex in NYC that has a daily fueling cost of around $100 million and all that is going for Saudi light crude. Big $ numbers and big step-changes in the numbers coming up real fast when the nuke plants start dropping off the grid.

Scamp

[MORTARDUDE]

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