John McCain calls Bush campaign charges "DISHONEST"!

[Gimpy]

###START###

Thursday August 5, 5:35 P.M.


By RON FOURNIER, AP Political Writer

WASHINGTON - Republican Sen. John McCain (news, bio, voting record), a former prisoner of war in Vietnam, called an ad criticizing John Kerry (news - web sites)'s military
service "dishonest and dishonorable" and urged the White House on Thursday to condemn it as well.

The White House declined. (big surprise there....editorial comment, Gimp)
"It was the same kind of deal that was pulled on me," McCain said in an interview with The Associated Press, comparing the anti-Kerry ad to tactics in his bitter Republican primary fight with President Bush (news - web sites).

The 60-second ad features Vietnam veterans who accuse the Democratic presidential nominee of lying about his decorated Vietnam War record and betraying his fellow veterans by later opposing the conflict.

"When the chips were down, you could not count on John Kerry," one of the veterans, Larry Thurlow, says in the ad. Thurlow didn't serve on Kerry's swiftboat , but says he witnessed the events that led to Kerry winning a Bronze Star and the last of his three Purple Hearts. Kerry's crewmates support the candidate and call him a hero.

The ad, scheduled to air in a few markets in Ohio, West Virginia and Wisconsin, was produced by Stevens, Reed, Curcio and Potham, the same team that produced McCain's ads in 2000.
"I wish they hadn't done it," McCain said of his former advisers. "I don't know if they knew all the facts."

Asked if the White House knew about the ad or helped find financing for it, McCain said, "I hope not, but I don't know. But I think the Bush campaign should specifically condemn the ad."

McCain, chairman of Bush's campaign in Arizona, later said the Bush campaign has denied any involvement and added, "I can't believe the president would pull such a cheap stunt."

(Wake up John, this is the same guy...Bush...that TRASHED you in the 2000 republican primary for gosh sakes! editorial comment...Gimp)

White House spokesman Scott McClellan declined to condemn the ad. He did denounce the proliferation of spending by independent groups, such as the anti-Kerry veterans organization, that are playing on both sides of the political fence.

"The president thought he got rid of this unregulated soft money when he signed the bipartisan campaign finance reform into law," McClellan said. A chief sponsor of that bill, which Bush initially opposed, was McCain.

In 2000, Bush's supporters sponsored a rumor campaign against McCain in the South Carolina primary, helping Bush win the primary and the nomination. McCain's supporters have never forgiven the Bush team.

McCain said that's all in the past to him, but he's speaking out against the anti-Kerry ad because "it reopens all the old wounds of the Vietnam War, which I spent the last 35 years trying to heal."

"I deplore this kind of politics," McCain said. "I think the ad is dishonest and dishonorable. As it is, none of these individuals served on the boat (Kerry) commanded. Many of his crew have testified to his courage under fire. I think John Kerry served honorably in Vietnam. I think George Bush served honorably in the Texas Air National Guard during the Vietnam War."

McCain himself spent more than five years in a Vietnam prisoner of war camp. A bona fide war hero, McCain, like Kerry, used his war record as the foundation of his presidential campaign.
The Kerry campaign has denounced the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, saying none of the men in the ad served on the boat that Kerry commanded. Three veterans on Kerry's boat that day ? Jim Rassmann, who says Kerry saved his life, Gene Thorson and Del Sandusky, the driver on Kerry's boat, said the group was lying. They say Kerry was injured, and Rassmann called the Switboat group's account "pure fabrication."

The general counsel for the Kerry campaign and the Democratic National Committee (news - web sites) sent television stations a letter asking them not to run the ad because it is "an inflammatory, outrageous lie" by people purporting to have served with Kerry.

Hoffmann said none of the 13 veterans in the commercial served on Kerry's boat but rather were in other swiftboats within a few hundred yards of Kerry's. The group claims that there was no gunfire on the day Kerry pulled Rassmann from a muddy river in the Mekong Delta and that Kerry's arm was not wounded, as he and his crewmates have claimed.
___

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[Advisor]

There is a disturbing thread here. Are these officials saying that only approved party lines are to be permitted on the airwaves? That the 1st amendment only applies to the 2 parties? If this is true, this smells of facism/communism...the very things we fought against for the last 60+ years. Very disturbing.

If the statements are defaming, be an American....sue 'em. Better still, refute 'em and/or suck it up.

[SuperScout]

In his typically underhanded manner, Gimpy has attempted to link the Swift Boat Veterans for the Truth to the Bush reelection effort, when in fact, they are a separate and distinct group. To try to defend against the truth by saying none of these veterans were on his boat is weak and desperate; obviously, I wasn't with every squad or every platoon of my command at all times, but I certainly knew what they were doing or not doing.

And so what if John McCain doesn't like the ad: he's certainly entitled to his opinion, so BFD. McCain's also partly responsible for the disaster called 'campaign finance reform' which is nothing more than an assault on the First Amendment.

The liberal's whining and complaining about the ad, and the viciousness of their counterattack is directly proportional to the truth of the ad's content.

[Gimpy]

Originally posted by SuperScout In his typically underhanded manner, Gimpy has attempted to link the Swift Boat Veterans for the Truth to the Bush reelection effort, when in fact, they are a separate and distinct group. To try to defend against the truth by saying none of these veterans were on his boat is weak and desperate; obviously, I wasn't with every squad or every platoon of my command at all times, but I certainly knew what they were doing or not doing.

And so what if John McCain doesn't like the ad: he's certainly entitled to his opinion, so BFD. McCain's also partly responsible for the disaster called 'campaign finance reform' which is nothing more than an assault on the First Amendment.

The liberal's whining and complaining about the ad, and the viciousness of their counterattack is directly proportional to the truth of the ad's content.

The ONLY thing "directly proportional" to the truth is John McCains statement! McCain said. "I think the ad is dishonest and dishonorable!"

[SuperScout]

As I wrote earlier, McCain has his own opinion, so BFD. That opinion doesn't alter the truth, doesn't change history, and in the final analysis, doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

[Gimpy]

only ones attempting to alter the "truth", change "history" and will do anything, no matter HOW despicable, sleazy, and disgusting to defeat John Kerry are the SBVFT and those who support their "brand" of polical dirty tricks!

Case in point!

See Below:


From: Patrick G. Grasso
To: lawrence zimmerman
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 10:39 PM
Subject: A letter from Illinois... ...that could never be written about George Bush or Dick Cheney:

Setting Kerry's Record Straight


I have been hearing and seeing negative stories and attacks on my friend and former PCF-44 Swift Boat commander, John Kerry, and I believe it's time to put them to rest.

I served with Kerry on his first Swift Boat, PCF-44, as his second in command, senior enlisted man and radarman 2nd class. I was on the boat with Kerry, on patrol and in firefights. Steve Hayes [op-ed, April 17] may not have known Kerry well, but I know him very well.

From the first day I met him, I knew that I had someone special whom I could trust in any situation, but especially under attack or in a firefight. Kerry always took care of his men. We needed each other to survive. We were truly brothers then, and we maintain that closeness to this day. I saw combat with Kerry, and there was not a time that he did not display courage, compassion, caring, and the best command decisions.

This is why we nine crewmates support him to this day.

I trusted John Kerry with my life 35 years ago, and I wouldn't hesitate to do the same today.

-- James R. Wasser

St. Anne, Ill.

#############
From wire services:

Apparently Thurlow (who is associated with the Swfit Boat Veterans group attacking Kerry) said on the Woodruff show that the question about Kerry's service hasn't arisen before. Which is absolutely nothing more than Texas Bullshit! Kerry's military record has been an open book since he first ran for political office more than 25 years ago! And, Thurlow's own statements were included in the book by Douglas Brinkley, "Tour Of Duty" which cronicles John Kerrys' military career!

TRANSCRIPT> NOTES WOODRUFFS RECENT TV SHOW!

THURLOW: Let me ask Mr. Rassmann (the Green Beret that was saved by John Kerry in the combat action)this question: I also ended up in the water that day during the rescue efforts on the 3-boat (ph). And my boat, the 51-boat (ph), came up, picked me up, business as usual. I got back on board, went about the business at hand.

I received no fire. But the thing I would like to ask is, we have five boats now, John's returning, and four boats basically dead in the water, working on the 3-boat (ph). If we were receiving fire off the bank, how come not one single boat received one bullet hole, nobody was hit, no sign of any rounds hitting the water while I was in it?

WOODRUFF: What about that, Jim Rassmann, quickly?

RASSMANN: There were definitely rounds hitting the water around me. If Mr. Thurlow feels that what his story is purported to be was the case, he had ample opportunity 35 years ago to deal with it. He never did, nor did anyone else. John Kerry did not tell this story. I told this story when I put him in for a Silver Star for coming back to rescue me. The Navy saw fit to reduce it to a Bronze Star for valor.

That's OK with me. But If Mr. Furlow had a problem with that, he should have dealt with it long, long ago. To bring it up now, I think, is very disingenuous. I think that this is partisan motivation on his part and for the part of his whole organization.

###END###

The story involving this combat action excerpted in American History magazine is from Doug Brinkley's Tour of Duty, pp. 314-318.

Here's a link to the AH piece: http://www.thehistorynet.com/ah/blke...am/index3.html

It appears that Doug Brinkley interviewed Thurlow for the book, or had access to interviews Thurlow had previously given. Thurlow is very critical of the Swift Boats' leadership during the time he and Kerry served there, including in his criticism the aide to Adm. Zumwalt -- none other than Roy Hoffman! (See Brinkley, Tour of Duty, pp. 260, 333).

Moreover, Kerry was not the only person injured in the engagement on Bay Hap River. And several boats were damaged. How can they lie in this way now and think they can get away with it? And why didn't Thurlow tell "his version of the truth" to Doug Brinkley? .

:cd: :cd: :cd: :cd: :cd:

[Gimpy]

Originally posted by SuperScout As I wrote earlier, McCain has his own opinion, so BFD. That opinion doesn't alter the truth, doesn't change history, and in the final analysis, doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

I glad you brought up the fact that "opinion" dosen't alter the.

THE FREAKIN TRUTH!


###START###

Swift Boat Veterans for Truth Start to Sink

Editorial by Shane Cory
August 6, 2004

For the last few weeks, the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth have been ramping up their media operations for the release of their attack ad on John Kerry. This television ad coincides with a book by one of the SwiftVet founders, John O'Neill.

I personally received a few e-mails as the managing editor of the Washington Dispatch. One such e-mail from Tom Mortensen included the following:

"He [Kerry] recommended himself for 2 of his Purple Hearts for minor scratches that were probably self-inflicted and, more importantly, for the Silver Star. The events surrounds the award of the Bronze Star are also questionable as will be revealed in a soon to be released book, ?Unfit to Command?, currently #2 in sales at Amazon.com."

This was part of my response:

"Do you have solid evidence that Kerry?s wounds were self-inflicted? If you do bring facts to light and if they?re for real then I?ll give you a column. There is also the risk that if they are not for real or you don?t have any evidence to support your claims, you?ll get a column anyway, just not what you expected."


Tom responded with:

"The facts will [be] out over the next several weeks via testamentary evidence from officers who participated in the actions in question"

I should have called "b.s" at that very moment but I held off due to the chance that they could have some hard, credible evidence against John Kerry. Yet, I strongly felt that someone cannot make that type of accusation without backing it up, no matter what their media plans may be.

I didn't call it then, but I'll call it now. Bullshit !


After looking into the formation of this group which was funded by Republican donors and put together within the past four months, something looked odd. Combine the Republican money with a communications operative known to be "well connected" within the RNC, and you have a Republican hit squad that's willing to slither below James Carville's moral threshold. That's pretty low.

Yesterday afternoon, the first hole appeared in the hull of the Swift Boat Veterans' ship of lies. A key figure in the SwiftVets' attack against John Kerry admitted that he made a "terrible mistake" in an interview with the Boston Globe . George Elliott, Kerry's former commanding officer admitted that he was given an affidavit to sign by the SwiftVets that attacked Kerry's nomination for the Silver Star. He admitted to feeling pressured to sign the false affidavit due to the approaching deadline of the book by John O'Neill. Elliott admitted the mistake and feels that John Kerry deserved his Silver Star.

John O'Neill, the author of the soon to be released book that attacks John Kerry's Vietnam service, never even served on a swift boat at the same time as John Kerry. Kerry was back home in the United States by the time O'Neill took command of his first unit! O'Neill did not even know John Kerry until he was tapped by Richard Nixon. Huh, what was that? Yes, this story gets even more interesting.

Back in 1971, Richard Nixon needed a plan to counter anti-war groups such as Vietnam Veterans Against the War of which John Kerry was a member. He tasked Chuck Colson (of Watergate infamy) to form a group around the young John O'Neill. Yes, this is an old, bitter fight.

The first round of Kerry v. O'Neill occurred in June of 1971 on the Dick Cavett Show. O'Neill takes pride in displaying this "debate" on the website of the Swift Board Veterans for Truth.

The second round occurred this week when O'Neill and his cohorts released this ad against Kerry. Unfortunately for John O'Neill, he knocked himself out with a self-inflicted flurry of lies and stupidity.

Instead of taking advantage of non-political veterans by preparing affidavits for their signature and pressuring them to sign them, maybe O'Neill should have dedicated time passing out fliers for Bush's reelection campaign.

Obviously, O'Neill has held a grudge against John Kerry for over three decades. Now backed by Republican money and at least one false affidavit, he may have thought that he had a chance against Kerry. Thankfully, with men like George Elliott coming forward, the truth will prevail.

###START###

Like all falsehoods and misinformation tactics used by the "radical right-wingers"............it's starting to come apart at the seams, and reveal what a despicable, hateful and disgusting bunch they really are!!!


__________________

[exlrrp]

From USATODAY
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politic...mcain-ad_x.htm
McCain condemns anti-Kerry ad
WASHINGTON (AP) ? Republican Sen. John McCain, a former prisoner of war in Vietnam, called an ad criticizing John Kerry's military service "dishonest and dishonorable" and urged the White House on Thursday to condemn it as well.
"It was the same kind of deal that was pulled on me," McCain said in an interview with The Associated Press, referring to his bitter Republican primary fight with President Bush. (Related items: Group's ad says Kerry lied | View the ad)

The 60-second ad features Vietnam veterans who accuse the Democratic presidential nominee of lying about his decorated Vietnam War record and betraying his fellow veterans by later opposing the conflict.

"When the chips were down, you could not count on John Kerry," one of the veterans, Larry Thurlow, says in the ad. Thurlow didn't serve on Kerry's swiftboat, but says he witnessed the events that led to Kerry winning a Bronze Star and the last of his three Purple Hearts. Kerry's crewmates support the candidate and call him a hero.

The ad, scheduled to air in a few markets in Ohio, West Virginia and Wisconsin, was produced by Stevens, Reed, Curcio and Potham, the same team that produced McCain's ads in 2000.

"I wish they hadn't done it," McCain said of his former advisers. "I don't know if they knew all the facts."

Asked if the White House knew about the ad or helped find financing for it, McCain said, "I hope not, but I don't know. But I think the Bush campaign should specifically condemn the ad."

Later, McCain said the Bush campaign has denied any involvement and added, "I can't believe the president would pull such a cheap stunt."

The White House and Bush-Cheney campaign did not address McCain's call that they repudiate the spot, though a Bush spokesman said the campaign does not question Kerry's highly decorated war service. McCain is co-chair of Bush's campaign in Arizona.

In 2000, Bush's supporters sponsored a rumor campaign against McCain in the South Carolina primary, helping Bush win the primary and the nomination. McCain's supporters have never forgiven the Bush team.

McCain said that's all in the past to him, but he's speaking out against the anti-Kerry ad because "it reopens all the old wounds of the Vietnam War, which I spent the last 35 years trying to heal."

"I deplore this kind of politics," McCain said. "I think the ad is dishonest and dishonorable. As it is, none of these individuals served on the boat (Kerry) commanded. Many of his crew have testified to his courage under fire. I think John Kerry served honorably in Vietnam. I think George Bush served honorably in the Texas Air National Guard during the Vietnam War."

McCain himself spent more than five years in a Vietnam prisoner of war camp. A bona fide war hero, McCain, like Kerry, used his war record as the foundation of his presidential campaign.

The Kerry campaign has denounced the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, saying none of the men in the ad served on the boat that Kerry commanded. Three veterans on Kerry's boat that day ? Jim Rassmann, who says Kerry saved his life, Gene Thorson and Del Sandusky, the driver on Kerry's boat, said the group was lying on all fronts.

They say Kerry was injured, and Rassmann called the group's account "pure fabrication."

The leader of the group, retired Adm. Roy Hoffmann, said none of the 13 veterans in the commercial served on Kerry's boat but rather were in other swiftboats within 50 yards of Kerry's. The group claims that there was no gunfire on the day Kerry pulled Rassmann from a muddy river in the Mekong Delta and that Kerry's arm was not wounded, as he has claimed.

"What we have is a fabrication that led to Kerry getting his Bronze Star and his last Purple Heart," said Thurlow, who said he commanded a swiftboat near Kerry's.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Copyright 2004 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.


There's no end to the Bush followers continuous slander of Vietnam veterans who oppose Bush--they HAVE to do this to cover Bush's dismal military record, ending his career as a pilot suspended from flying. Even by the best scenarios, he was trained to fly a plane that became completely obsolete 2 years after he started flying it, which (according to him) rendered him so obsolete he had to quit flying also..
When all youve got is a discharge that looks like this:
http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/ANG22.gif
You have to slander others to make yourself feel good, because this is the most nothing discharge paper of any president ever--no commendations, no qualifications other than flying a plane that became obsolete--to where he couldn't fly any others. I guess learning to fly another plane was too hard or too demanding for him, he spent his whole last year suspended from flying. What was he doing this last year if not flying?? They say he was there although the the records don't--if he was there, what was he doing?? Bush won't answer that and he needs to. He had no other military skill and was suspended from the only one he had
This discharge paper makes even Al Gore look like Audie Murphy. No wonder Bush didn't even show up to signj it, its so dismal--looks like a basic trainees, the man didn't want to put in any extra effort at all and didn't--got out of it as soon as he could
It is the hall mark of Bush supporters to slander every Vietnam Veteran who challenges Bush, as McCAin points out they did to him so well. Theyre good at slamming veterans, love doing it. I guess in their own way they think its doing the country good but to most people it puts them on the level of the "spitting Hippie" from our day
If you want to compare to a highly decorated a Vietnam Vetran's discharge:
http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilservice/DD214.pdf

Let em do it Gimp, the good news is that they only make their side look bad--every time I try and tell em that they say I'm preaching at them so I won't. Its like giving away the joke.
The truth is, that Bush came in with the ffewer votes and he's done nothing since then to gain friends and allies from our side. NOBODY who voted for Gore is voting for Bush, theyve won no converts at all from our side and antagonized many of their own side
Had a good trip up North, Steve, thanks for holding down the fort while I'm gone

James

[exlrrp]

[quote]Originally posted by exlrrp Asked if the White House knew about the ad or helped find financing for it, McCain said, "I hope not, but I don't know. But I think the Bush campaign should specifically condemn the ad."

Later, McCain said the Bush campaign has denied any involvement and added, "I can't believe the president would pull such a cheap stunt."

He sure does now, thats exactly the kind of person Bush is

"The White House and Bush-Cheney campaign did not address McCain's call that they repudiate the spot, though a Bush spokesman said the campaign does not question Kerry's highly decorated war service."

Whenever you see the slams the conservatives post here, consider what huge liars they make out of Bush--this way they get it both ways--they get whatever benefit the slander brings them while Bush and Cheneycan deny they say it.
Talk about your flipflops

TTFN
James

James

[SuperScout]

Let's see if I understand the math: there are 254 Vietnam veterans, all associated with or past members of Swift Boat organizations, and all of them are liars? So we're supposed to blindly accept the stories/tales/exaggeration as the truth by John Kerry, at the expense of these veterans? But wait! there's more: ah, yes, the story/tale/exaggeration of Kerry's exploits into Cambodia, Christmas time, 1968, a story/tale/exaggeration he's trying to blame on Richard Nixon. NEWS FLASH: Richard Nixon was inaugurated for his first term in January 1969, several weeks after he alleged ordered John, the Wayward Tourist, Kerry into Cambodia. And guess what: not even his crewmembers will back up this story/tale/exaggeration. But according to Kerry, this incident was 'burned into his memory,' when in fact, it never occurred.