Oh Yeah They Do!!

[HARDCORE]

They say that ?Old Soldiers Never Die? - OH YEAH THEY DO! At least this was the case with General Douglas MacArthur [1880-1964]!

Old ?Dug-Out Doug? was the quintessential old hand when it came to military matters. And as a matter of fact, it is said that ?Mac? was once even kidnapped by Indians!

Now add to this the fact that both Douglas and his old man Arthur MacArthur were both awarded the ?Medal of Honor? (Arthur at Missionary Ridge in the Civil War, and Doug in WWII), and you begin to see the pure grit in that family!

Was he (Douglas MacArthur) perfect - HELL NO! Like most men of power and fame, a lot of it went to his head. They do, however say - ?LET HE WHO CAN BRAG AND TELL THE TRUTH - BRAG!!?

It is a well-known fact that President Truman and Douglas MacArthur didn?t always get along. ?Twas, after all, Truman who relieved MacArthur from command in Korea, and this, not long after (as time goes) Mac pulled off the brilliant Inchon landings!

?When does a National Guard Captain outrank a General - When that Captain also happens to the Commander In Chief (President)!? I do, however, take some exception to the fact that both Truman and Eisenhower didn?t display much respect for MacArthur after death (MacArthur?s funeral, 5 April 1964)!

Again, did MacArthur do a little showboating - Hell yeah, but then - ?SO WHAT?!?

I personally will always remember General Douglas MacArthur for his (now) famous words. NOT ?I shall return? mind you, but rather these:

?WHAT YOU WANT TO BE,
WHAT YOU CAN BE,
WHAT YOU WILL BE!!?

VERITAS

[Seascamp]

I?m not sure Douglas got the Medal of Honor but his Pa did. The Author William Manchester (The WWII ?Raggedy-assed Marine?) wrote the book ?The American Cesar? where the life and times of Douglas MacArthur are delineated. After reading that book and several other accounts I came away with the impression that Gen. MacArthur was a real handful and ambitious well beyond the narrow confines of a mere five stars on his color tabs. My thought is that he was quite happy to be the defacto ?Emperor? of Japan during the occupation/reconstruction period.

During the pacific campaign of WWII he was at Adm. King and Adm. Nimitz hammer and tongs the entire time and is probably the only Army Gen. to have a USN Pacific fleet all his own. My guess is that he was given a fleet just to shut him up, get him out of their hair and get on with war, LOL. But at the surrender ceremony in Tokyo Bay we see who conducted the ceremony. However, in fact, it was the USN and the USMC that did the majority of heavy lifting during the WW II Pacific Campaign with the US Army providing distinguished and vital service as well. Given the image of Tokyo Bay, one would get the impression that the Gen did all that by his only. Hmmmm

No doubt the Gen. had moxie, stroke, friends in very high places and a genius level mental capacity to go with it. But I have to say, he would have much rather had a gold laurel wreath and a satin kaki toga than a slouch hat and a corncob pipe. Not to diminish any of his accomplishments in any way, but he was vein glorious in the best tradition of British Royal Navy Adm. Horatio Nelson and a few more that could be named.

In retrospect and up to current times, I cant help but notice that there have been no more General Officers or Admirals like MacArthur and I seriously doubt there ever will be. There is no lack of talent or ego available, it?s just my sense of it that no US Military Officer is ever going to get that level of stroke, influence and permissible arrogance ever again, ever. Maybe that all comes under the title of lessons learned, maybe, who knows. Maybe there is a saga of supposed American blue-bloods that would be King.

Scamp

[HARDCORE]

MEDAL of HONOR AWARDS - MacARTHURS

(Only father and son to receive this Nation's highest military award....)
---------------------------------------

http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/mohiib1.htm

MacARTHUR, DOUGLAS

Rank and organization: General, U.S. Army, commanding U.S. Army Forces in the Far East. Place and date: Bataan Peninsula, Philippine Islands. Entered service at: Ashland, Wis. Birth: Little Rock, Ark. G.O. No.: 16, 1 April 1942. Citation: For conspicuous leadership in preparing the Philippine Islands to resist conquest, for gallantry and intrepidity above and beyond the call of duty in action against invading Japanese forces, and for the heroic conduct of defensive and offensive operations on the Bataan Peninsula. He mobilized, trained, and led an army which has received world acclaim for its gallant defense against a tremendous superiority of enemy forces in men and arms. His utter disregard of personal danger under heavy fire and aerial bombardment, his calm judgment in each crisis, inspired his troops, galvanized the spirit of resistance of the Filipino people, and confirmed the faith of the American people in their Armed Forces.
__________________________________
http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/mohciv2.htm

MacARTHUR, ARTHUR, JR.

Rank and organization: First Lieutenant, and Adjutant, 24th Wisconsin Infantry. Place and date: At Missionary Ridge, Tenn., 25 November 1863. Entered service at: Milwaukee, Wis. Birth: Springfield, Mass. Date of issue: 30 June 1890. Citation: Seized the colors of his regiment at a critical moment and planted them on the captured works on the crest of Missionary Ridge.
__________________________________________________

http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/moh1.htm

The President, in the name of Congress, has awarded more than 3,400 Medals of Honor to our nation's bravest Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, Marines, and Coast Guardsmen since the decoration's creation in 1861.

For years, the citations highlighting these acts of bravery and heroism resided in dusty archives and only sporadically were printed. In 1973, the U.S. Senate ordered the citations compiled and printed as Committee on Veterans' Affairs, U.S. Senate, Medal of Honor Recipients: 1863-1973 (Washington, D.C.: Government Printing Office, 1973). This book was later updated and reprinted in 1979.

The breakdown of these is a duplicate of that in the congressional compilation. Likewise, some minor misspelling and other errors are duplicated from the official government volume. These likely were the result of the original transcriptions. The following is an index of the full-text files by war.
Full-Text Citations
Civil War (A-L)
Civil War (M-Z)
Indian War Campaigns
Interim 1866-1870
1871 Korean Campaign
Interim 1871-1898
War with Spain
Philippine Insurrection
China Relief Expedition (Boxer Rebellion)
Interim 1901-1911
Action Against Outlaws--Philippines 1911
Mexican Campaign (Vera Cruz)
Haiti 1915
Interim 1915-16
Dominican Campaign
World War I
Haiti Campaign 1919-1920
Second Nicaraguan Campaign
Interim 1920-1940
World War II (A-F)
World War II (G-L)
World War II (M-S)
World War II (T-Z)
Korean War
Vietnam (A-L)
Vietnam (M-Z)
Somalia
Special Legislation

[the humper]

I have a distinct different point of view on his highness "the emperor", than what some others might have. I saw his actions and inactions, and some were not too good. In fact they were down right Sorry!!!!!!!!
SF
NC

[HARDCORE]

Friend Humper -

Was he (Douglas MacArthur) perfect - HELL NO! Like most men of power and fame, a lot of it went to his head.

"And there it is, but definitely not limited to Mac!"

VERITAS

[Andy]

In WWI General Pershing said Mac was his best single star General. Between the wars he was the youngest head of what today we would call the Joint Chief?s of Staff. He was the defacto Emperor of the Philippians prior to holding that job in Japan. The bosses in Washington let him out to hang himself at Inchon expecting the attack would be a failure. Mac was sure the Brits Foreign Office was infiltrated by communists and to a lesser extent so was the U.S. According to the KGB files he was right.

There is but one fact that makes me think he was a truly great general, (not necessarily a great man). After Washington made the decision to let the Philippians wither and die on the vine, Mac fought a war to conquer Japan. He lost less men in combat than were lost at the single battle of Anzio. From my perspective, as a former grunt, using men economically, that?s a very important thing.

Stay healthy,
Andy

[reconeil]

A haberdasherer and N.G. Captain telling a GREAT General how properly to conduct warfare aside, I've no doubt whatsoever that any problems existing with North Korea would have been resolved back in The Fiftees,...had Old Douglas, instead of Old Harry called-the-shots to the end and/or achieved TOTAL VICTORY. Guess that about 40 years later, one could also pretty-much say the same for: "Stormen-Norman" regarding dictates by both foreign (re. UN) and domestic politicos?

Besides,...only quite asinine politicos (foreign or domestic) could even have been slightly concerned about further alienating The Chinese during: "The Korean Police Action" while ALREADY FIGHTING THE CHINESE & BEING ATTACKED BY THE CHINESE en masse. What was the point of prolonging things indefinitely,...RATHER THAN JUST WINNING?

Also, and for what it's worth, could anyone honestly believe that if The General quite sensibly and rightfully (wisely also) took the fight to the enemy,...that after 50 years (some might say a-half-century) The USA and Allies would still be threatened by North Korea EVEN MORE SO THAN BEFORE (especially nuclearwise)? I just don't believe so,...since A TRULY defeated enemy never can threaten anyone.

Doesn't the above seem logical,...even though quite intollerant, insensitive towards an enemy and/or basically: "Politically-incorrect"???

Neil

[the humper]

for discussion. But discussion wasn't what we were doing, when it hit the fan. The anointed "emperor of Japan", sent troops into Pusan that were totally unprepared. Some didn't have a clue as to which end of the rifle the ammo came out. Gun fodder, pure and simple. He declared Seoul open officially as of 9-25-50, 90 days after the invasion, while all along the 7th Army Division and the 1st Marine Division were fighting their butts off just north and east where he was having his ceremony. In November, thru Gen. Almond, they committed a regiment to the east side of the Chosen reservoir. 3,000 men, (Task Force Faith) under equipped and supplied. Result, 300 DIDN'T get wounded. 1,700 WIA's or frostbite, and 1,000 still there because, "the boys will be home by Christmas". A picture of two men on a MG overlooking the Yalu was (his PR working). The 2nd Division paid a helluva price for the rush to the river. Not the best usage of the personnel, but with an ego like his, why should he care about the grunts who were on line. Was in that hell hole, and my personal feelings do not look on him as others might. If a General, O. P. Smith had followed his orders to the letter, it's very possible another 10 thousand + wouldn't have made it out. And if he'd has his way, thru Manchuria and on to China, then I wouldn't be posting this today!!!!!!!!
SF
NC

[HARDCORE]

The basic problem in war and politics is that far too many politicos, regardless of advanced rank or not, select qualified generals to run wars, and then no sooner are these generals in the field, than some political yard bird attempts to dictate tactics!

Naturally, if the plan works, regardless of the author or who's blood was left upon the field of battle, the politico takes the bows. Whereas, if the tactics are a bust, all armor-plated desk/political heroes, immediately duck for cover - let the blame fall where it may (away from them, that is)!

Naturally, even generals can screw-up, history bares this out well!
But "Political Generals" have always been a military bane!! And in this respect, little has really changed!! (opinion)

VERITAS

[the humper]

And I distinctly remember, that there happened to be 3 or 4 times as many troops in Europe, cause there was a little action going on there!!!! Politically and otherwise. But I thought the initial post was regarding the qualities, about the anointed "emperor"!!!!!!!!
SF
NC