Flap flies in Haiti over U.S. flag absence

[darrels joy]

Flap flies in Haiti over U.S. flag absence




By Alan Gomez and Oren Dorell - USA Today
Posted : Monday Mar 15, 2010 917 EDT

The many nations helping Haiti recover from the devastating earthquake that struck there have set up their own military compounds and fly their flags at the entrances.

France's tricolor, Britain's Union Jack and even Croatia's coat of arms flap in the breeze.

But the country whose contributions dwarf the rest of the world's — the
United States — has no flag at its main installation near the Port-au-Prince airport.

The lack of the Stars and Stripes does not sit well with some veterans and servicemembers who say the U.S. government should be proud to fly the flag in Haiti, given the amount of money and manpower the U.S. is donating to help the country recover from the Jan. 12 quake.

The Obama administration says flying the flag could give Haiti the wrong idea.

"We are not here as an occupation force, but as an international partner committed to supporting the government of Haiti on the road to recovery," the U.S. government's Haiti Joint Information Center said in response to a query about the flag.

The absence of the American flag bothers former Navy man Arthur Herriford, national president of the Pearl Harbor Survivors Association.

"It's very improper," Herriford said. "Our military people always engage and function under the American colors — always have and always will."
The U.S. flag has flown in Haiti under circumstances that were not always friendly.

In 1915, Marines invaded Haiti to restore stability after several coups. In 1986, President Ronald Reagan pressured dictator Jean-Claude "Baby Doc" Duvalier to renounce his rule and leave. In 1994, President Bill Clinton sent troops to prop up President Jean-Bertrand Aristide. In 2004, President George W. Bush's administration eased Aristide out of office amid a brutal civil war.

France, the former colonizer of the country, has its flag up at its base in Port-au-Prince. The Haiti flag is based on the French flag, turned on its side with the white stripped out.

Army Col. Billy Buckner, spokesman for Joint Task Force-Haiti, a group representing various Obama administration agency heads, said the decision not to fly the American flag was made out of respect as guests of the government of Haiti.

"It is no mystery that U.S. forces are on the ground, and we proudly wear an American flag on our right sleeve," he said.

U.S. Air Force air operations specialists and FAA air-traffic controllers manage air traffic at Haiti's main airport, where millions of dollars in aid from the United States has been arriving for weeks. More than 12,000 U.S. military personnel support relief operations.

"Our commanders are smart and intuitively understand their mission here in Haiti, and clearly the sensitivities that come with supporting the mission," Buckner said.A U.S. flag went up at a temporary consular station set up in the first few days on the airport tarmac, according to Charles Luoma-Overstreet, a State Department spokesman in Haiti.

"Apparently, the prime minister (Jean-Max Bellerive) saw this" and thought it appeared as if the United States were taking over the airport, Luoma-Overstreet said.

He said Bellerive said something to U.S. Ambassador Kenneth Merten, who agreed that flying the flag wasn't a good idea and told the consular officials to take it down.

The decision is not unprecedented, noted Joe Davis, spokesman for the Veterans of Foreign Wars, who says he is not bothered by the flag's absence.

During the Gulf War in 1991, U.S. forces took control of the main airport in Kuwait and briefly flew the American flag over their installation, Davis said, but higher-ups ordered it taken down to avoid an impression that U.S. forces were conquerors.

The missing American colors at Port-au-Prince airport were no problem to Don Hollenbaugh, a former Army Delta Force operator who received the Distinguished Service Cross for actions in Fallujah, Iraq, in 2004.

"Everybody in the world knows the U.S. is there," Hollenbaugh said. "So by
not flying the flag, we're not changing anyone's mind about anything."

http://www.navytimes.com/news/2010/0...i_flag_031510/

[1CAVCCO15MED]

Kinda reminds me of that old saying, "Beggers can't be choosers".

[82Rigger]

After Hurricane Katrina, dozens of nations sent humanitarian aid to the United States, including Russia and the Peoples' Republic of China.

I trust then, that these objecting veterans and servicemen would have no problem with these nations operating under THEIR flags in Louisiana.

[Arrow]

Russian and China gave in Katrina but did not foot the bill.

Russia and China were not footing the bill in Katrina that bill is being paid by the oft forgot, ignored and maligned taxpayer of these United States of America.

Fast forward to Haiti. All other countries flying their flags are contributing but once again the oft forgot, ignored and maligned taxpayers of these United States of America are footing the bill. We were first in and will be the last out.

A suggestion to the Prime Minsiter of Haiti or Prime Minister, President, etc of any other country that doesn’t want to see Old Glory flying as a tribute to those hard working citizens of the USA including our military men and women that not only graciously come to your aid but foot the bill: Stop calling 911 USA.

YouTube- Martina McBride - God Bless America...

[SuperScout]

Here's my recomendations:
1. Neatly fold the Flag, and place it in a secure place for transport back to the most gracious and giving nation on earth.
2. Embark all US service members and their individual and organizational equipment on appropriate aircraft, surface vessel or whatever means of transportation, and order them to be underway to the most gracious and giving nation on earth.
3. Recall the US Embassy staff, and have the last person, before boading the last aircraft back to the most gracious and giving nation on earth, pull the plug on Haiti, and hopefully it will sink into the Caribbean without inordinate ecological damage.

[82Rigger]

My sentiments exactly.

If we can't go help people out without without waving our flag in their face,

then we don't need to be there.

The missing American colors at Port-au-Prince airport were no problem to Don Hollenbaugh, a former Army Delta Force operator who received the Distinguished Service Cross for actions in Fallujah, Iraq, in 2004.

"Everybody in the world knows the U.S. is there," Hollenbaugh said. "So by
not flying the flag, we're not changing anyone's mind about anything."

There's a DECORATED SOLDIER with the right attitude!

[Arrow]

Originally Posted by 82Rigger

My sentiments exactly.

If we can't go help people out without without waving our flag in their face,

then we don't need to be there.






There's a DECORATED SOLDIER with the right attitude!

With all due respect, Steve, there are decorated soldiers on both sides of the opinion including our own Scout. Although I would bet the farm that none of them including Don Hollenbaugh would emphasis those awards to prove they were on the right side of an opinion. I agree with the Don Hollenbaugh statement that everybody in the world knows that we are there but that is not the point. As Jim Hanson noted in the e-mail to Col Buckner below the United States Military is not an NGO (see link below). It is a tradition and a motivator to both the United States Military and the tax payers of this Republic to see our colors flying where we send them.

I would like to add for the record that I’m proud of our efforts in Haiti and believe the average Haitian has nothing to do with this flap. Politicians the world over have a way of mucking up the works for the rest of us.

Also Steve there is a back story here that most are missing and that is the Chavez - Haiti connection. But I'll let the reader ferret that one out on their own beginning with this:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/worl...l#ixzz0iZe1CkH


Dear COL Buckner,

I assume you are getting a fair amount of email, but it is warranted. I served in 1st SFG(A) and on many disaster relief missions where we always flew a US flag for two reasons. One, we were "showing the flag" to remind the people we were helping who came to their rescue, and two, because we are the US military and proud of it. We are not an NGO pretending to be citizens of Earth, we then and you now represent our country proudly. If the Haitian Prime Minister doesn't like to see our flag, then fold it up and bring it back here along with the vital aid and assistance it represents.

It is one thing to be aware of diplomatic concerns, it is another completely to allow them to force us to hang our heads.

--
Cordially,

Jim

Jim Hanson
Exec. Producer
Blackfive

Link to the rest of the story:
　
http://www.blackfive.net/main/2010/03/us-flag-too-imperialist-to-fly-in-haiti.html#comments

[82Rigger]

It is one thing to be aware of diplomatic concerns, it is another completely to allow them to force us to hang our heads.

Arrow,

Is the original post of this thread inaccurate?


"He said Bellerive said something to U.S. Ambassador Kenneth Merten, who agreed that flying the flag wasn't a good idea and told the consular officials to take it down."

Is Mr Merten not a DIPLOMAT?

Did PM Bellerive DEMAND that we remove the flag?

Was it decided that the American flag could not be flown ANYWHERE in Haiti or was the flag in question the flag at the AIRPORT? The airport CONTROLS Haiti.

How exactly does a request from a Prime Minister to a diplomat constitute forcing ANYONE to 'hang their heads in shame"?

[Arrow]

Let's remember we are commenting on information in print that none of us were on the ground to verify. With that said I'll offer these comments.

"But the country whose contributions dwarf the rest of the world's — the United States — has no flag at its main installation near the Port-au-Prince airport."

Steve the article clearly states the United States has no flag flying over its main installation near the Port-au-Prince airport. That's near and not over the airport.

"It is no mystery that U.S. forces are on the ground, and we proudly wear an American flag on our right sleeve," he said."

The way I read this statement regarding the American flag patch on the right sleeve of the uniform there was no other American flag flying in Haiti but at the United States command post near the Port-au-Prince airport. That's near and not over the airport. And there is no American flag flying in Haiti at this time. Although according to this article all other countries rendering aid are proudly flying their national flags.


“He said Bellerive said something to U.S. Ambassador Kenneth Merten, who agreed that flying the flag wasn't a good idea and told the consular officials to take it down."

“Is Mr Merten not a DIPLOMAT?”

“Did PM Bellerive DEMAND that we remove the flag?”

Of course he did but in the newspeak of George Orwell’s 1984.

"How exactly does a request from a Prime Minister to a diplomat constitute forcing ANYONE to 'hang their heads in shame"?"

As to your last question perhaps you should read Jim Hanson's e-mail to Col Buckner one more time for your answer. If you still have questions after reading the e-mail again you may go to the link I've provided here and post a comment after signing on to the site. If you don’t care to sign up on the site you can always contact him e-mail through the site.

I’ve contributed more than my two cents to this subject and need to back away lest I lose what little patience I have for this conversation.

You, Sir, now have the field.

Arrow

Link to Blackfive.net found here:
http://www.blackfive.net/main/2010/03/us-flag-too-imperialist-to-fly-in-haiti.html#comments


Bio for Jim Hanson and Matthew Burden of Blackfive.net found here:
http://www.sogmedia.net/index.php?mo...unc=view&pid=6

[82Rigger]

Let's remember we are commenting on information in print that none of us were on the ground to verify.

Maybe that should have been kept in mind before people started sounding off about the flag, or lack thereof.

Well, since you ain't gonna be here to discuss this, I guess I'll just go read George Orwell's 1984 again and see if I can figure out what Prime Minister Bellerive might have said to Ambassador Merten.