A GOOD FIRST STEP BUT NO REVERSE OF ALLIANCE.....Re: [confirmed]Tu+o+'ng VC Pha.m Van Tra` se~ ddi My~!

Vietnam should NEVER be a strategic partner of the USA against China
but could be a partnr of the USA against World Terrorism.
China is too close and GOD and Uncle Sam too far

A partnership with the USA to keep the South China sea free of
military use is in the interest of the USA and all aean countries
including Vietnam


")" wrote in message news:...
> On 25 Sep 2003 1012 -0700, qttt@yahoo.com (Qu.Tinh) wrote:
>
> >Ddo^`ng chi' pha't ngo^n vie^n Le^ Du~ng tha^.t a^'m o+'! ;-)))
> >
> >chuye^.n na`y QTTT no'i dda~ la^u ro^`i ma`!
> >
> >My~ e'p qua' ne^n chi? co' BT Ngoa.i Giao Nguye^~n Dy Nie^n va` Bo^.
> >Tru+o+?ng Thu+o+ng Ma.i Tru+o+ng Ddi`nh Tuye^?n qua tha(m My~ tua^`n
> >ro^`i.
> >
> >Qua'ch Ti?nh ta^n tho+`i...xin kie^'u!
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Chuye^.n na`y xa^?y ra du+o+'i tho+`i mo^.t TT thuo^.c dda?ng Co^.ng
> Ho`a cu?a My~ chu+' du+o+'i tho+`i cu?a mo^.t vi. TT thuo^.c dda?ng
> Da^n Chu? thi` se~ bi. da^n Viet ddi bie^?u ti`nh cho^'ng Co^.ng ?
>
> Hmmm....mo^.t ddie^`n ca^`n pha?i pha?n ti?nh !!!
>
> ;-))
>
>
> Pooh
> >-------------------------------------------
> >http://famulus.msnbc.com/FamulusIntl...asp?reg=PACRIM
> >
> >Vietnam's defence chief set for historic US visit
> >
> >By Christina Toh-Pantin
> >
> >
> >Vietnam Defence Minister Pham Van Tra is set to make a
> >historic post-war visit to the United States as he takes up the
> >invitation of
> >his U.S. counterpart Donald Rumsfeld, the Foreign Ministry said on
> >Thursday.
> >
> >''The two sides are now working actively on the arrangements on the
> >visit,'' Le
> >Dung, spokesman for the Foreign Ministry told a news briefing in
> >answer to a
> >Reuters question.
> >
> >It would be the first trip to Washington by any defence minister from
> >Vietnam following the end of the Vietnam War in 1975, in which the
> >communist
> >north defeated the U.S.-backed Saigon regime.
> >
> >Former Defence Secretary William Cohen was the first post-war American
> >defence chief to go to Vietnam, visiting in March 2000.
> >
> >The two countries restored diplomatic relations in 1995 and signed a
> >bilateral trade pact effective December 2001.
> >
> >The planned military trip along with a recent pact on searches for
> >U.S.
> >soldiers missing in action during the war are the latest signs of a
> >slow thaw
> >in a highly sensitive area.
> >
> >Dung declined to confirm that the visit would take place in November,
> >saying the timing and agenda would be revealed later. He also said
> >that a port
> >call by a U.S. Navy vessel was on the cards, but that no details were
> >available
> >yet.
> >
> >''It is my opinion that it is true that over the past years, the
> >political and diplomatic relations between the two countries have been
> >enhanced,'' Dung added, when asked about the significance of the
> >planned visit.
> >
> >The U.S. ambassador to Vietnam, Raymond Burghardt, told an American
> >Chamber of Commerce meeting on Wednesday that defence ties between
> >Washington
> >and Hanoi were showing improvement.
> >
> >Dung also confirmed an unusual pact between the two countries under
> >which America will hire retired senior Vietnamese intelligence
> >officers to comb
> >classified Vietnam government files for information on any U.S.
> >prisoners held
> >after the war.
> >
> >''Recently Vietnam has founded a study team to review archives of the
> >Defence Ministry and will provide (information) to the U.S. side if
> >more
> >information on American MIAs in Vietnam is found,'' Dung said.
> >
> >The pact deals with a controversial issue, as some MIA families have
> >bitterly accused Hanoi of hiding information about their loved ones.
> >Vietnam
> >denies this.
> >
> >America says 1,882 of its service personnel are listed as missing in
> >action and unaccounted for. Vietnam says 300,000 of its citizens are
> >missing
> >from the war.

No sweat Dink.
We can't stand Murder Inc.

"EL CHINO" wrote in message news:2b8b88c2.0309252025.2af77987@posting.google.c om...
> Vietnam should NEVER be a strategic partner of the USA against China
> but could be a partnr of the USA against World Terrorism.
> China is too close and GOD and Uncle Sam too far
>
> A partnership with the USA to keep the South China sea free of
> military use is in the interest of the USA and all aean countries
> including Vietnam
>
>
> ")" wrote in message news:...
> > On 25 Sep 2003 1012 -0700, qttt@yahoo.com (Qu.Tinh) wrote:
> >
> > >Ddo^`ng chi' pha't ngo^n vie^n Le^ Du~ng tha^.t a^'m o+'! ;-)))
> > >
> > >chuye^.n na`y QTTT no'i dda~ la^u ro^`i ma`!
> > >
> > >My~ e'p qua' ne^n chi? co' BT Ngoa.i Giao Nguye^~n Dy Nie^n va` Bo^.
> > >Tru+o+?ng Thu+o+ng Ma.i Tru+o+ng Ddi`nh Tuye^?n qua tha(m My~ tua^`n
> > >ro^`i.
> > >
> > >Qua'ch Ti?nh ta^n tho+`i...xin kie^'u!
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Chuye^.n na`y xa^?y ra du+o+'i tho+`i mo^.t TT thuo^.c dda?ng Co^.ng
> > Ho`a cu?a My~ chu+' du+o+'i tho+`i cu?a mo^.t vi. TT thuo^.c dda?ng
> > Da^n Chu? thi` se~ bi. da^n Viet ddi bie^?u ti`nh cho^'ng Co^.ng ?
> >
> > Hmmm....mo^.t ddie^`n ca^`n pha?i pha?n ti?nh !!!
> >
> > ;-))
> >
> >
> > Pooh
> > >-------------------------------------------
> > >http://famulus.msnbc.com/FamulusIntl...asp?reg=PACRIM
> > >
> > >Vietnam's defence chief set for historic US visit
> > >
> > >By Christina Toh-Pantin
> > >
> > >
> > >Vietnam Defence Minister Pham Van Tra is set to make a
> > >historic post-war visit to the United States as he takes up the
> > >invitation of
> > >his U.S. counterpart Donald Rumsfeld, the Foreign Ministry said on
> > >Thursday.
> > >
> > >''The two sides are now working actively on the arrangements on the
> > >visit,'' Le
> > >Dung, spokesman for the Foreign Ministry told a news briefing in
> > >answer to a
> > >Reuters question.
> > >
> > >It would be the first trip to Washington by any defence minister from
> > >Vietnam following the end of the Vietnam War in 1975, in which the
> > >communist
> > >north defeated the U.S.-backed Saigon regime.
> > >
> > >Former Defence Secretary William Cohen was the first post-war American
> > >defence chief to go to Vietnam, visiting in March 2000.
> > >
> > >The two countries restored diplomatic relations in 1995 and signed a
> > >bilateral trade pact effective December 2001.
> > >
> > >The planned military trip along with a recent pact on searches for
> > >U.S.
> > >soldiers missing in action during the war are the latest signs of a
> > >slow thaw
> > >in a highly sensitive area.
> > >
> > >Dung declined to confirm that the visit would take place in November,
> > >saying the timing and agenda would be revealed later. He also said
> > >that a port
> > >call by a U.S. Navy vessel was on the cards, but that no details were
> > >available
> > >yet.
> > >
> > >''It is my opinion that it is true that over the past years, the
> > >political and diplomatic relations between the two countries have been
> > >enhanced,'' Dung added, when asked about the significance of the
> > >planned visit.
> > >
> > >The U.S. ambassador to Vietnam, Raymond Burghardt, told an American
> > >Chamber of Commerce meeting on Wednesday that defence ties between
> > >Washington
> > >and Hanoi were showing improvement.
> > >
> > >Dung also confirmed an unusual pact between the two countries under
> > >which America will hire retired senior Vietnamese intelligence
> > >officers to comb
> > >classified Vietnam government files for information on any U.S.
> > >prisoners held
> > >after the war.
> > >
> > >''Recently Vietnam has founded a study team to review archives of the
> > >Defence Ministry and will provide (information) to the U.S. side if
> > >more
> > >information on American MIAs in Vietnam is found,'' Dung said.
> > >
> > >The pact deals with a controversial issue, as some MIA families have
> > >bitterly accused Hanoi of hiding information about their loved ones.
> > >Vietnam
> > >denies this.
> > >
> > >America says 1,882 of its service personnel are listed as missing in
> > >action and unaccounted for. Vietnam says 300,000 of its citizens are
> > >missing
> > >from the war.

>>>
Vietnam should NEVER be a strategic partner of the USA against China
but could be a partnr of the USA against World Terrorism.
China is too close and GOD and Uncle Sam too far
>>>>

Did you see an incredible irony? Uncle Sam said the reason to fight the
vietnam war was to stop the communist chinese from spreading farther south.
So, we fought against the North Vietnamese and the vietnamese people to stop
the chinese communist. 30 years later, we still want to stop and contain
the chinese communist. This time, we come to Vietnam, a country which we
said threatened the security of Southeat asia to beg them for cooperation
against the chinese and terrorism. I wish the vietnamese would ask uncle
sam these: what did have done for me? You bombed my country to the stone
age with twice the amount of bombs dropped in WW II. You sprayed my country
with 72 million liters of herbicides and assumed no responsiblity what so
ever. You imposed the toughest sanctions against our people. Where were
you when Pol Pot, the monster you helped to create rose to power and killing
millions of people. And we tried to stop Pol Pot, but you allied with the
chinese communist and Pol Pot against us. So, tell me a good reason why we
should help you fight against the chinese communist or terrorism.

In article , Richard
wrote:

> >>>
> Vietnam should NEVER be a strategic partner of the USA against China
> but could be a partnr of the USA against World Terrorism.
> China is too close and GOD and Uncle Sam too far
> >>>>
>
> Did you see an incredible irony?

Nope.

All I see is an incredible ignorance of documented history.

Sad....

"Richard" wrote in message news:...
> >>>
> Vietnam should NEVER be a strategic partner of the USA against China
> but could be a partnr of the USA against World Terrorism.
> China is too close and GOD and Uncle Sam too far
> >>>>
>
> Did you see an incredible irony? Uncle Sam said the reason to fight the
> vietnam war was to stop the communist chinese from spreading farther south.
> So, we fought against the North Vietnamese and the vietnamese people to stop
> the chinese communist. 30 years later, we still want to stop and contain
> the chinese communist. This time, we come to Vietnam, a country which we
> said threatened the security of Southeat asia to beg them for cooperation
> against the chinese and terrorism. I wish the vietnamese would ask uncle
> sam these: what did have done for me? You bombed my country to the stone
> age with twice the amount of bombs dropped in WW II. You sprayed my country
> with 72 million liters of herbicides and assumed no responsiblity what so
> ever. You imposed the toughest sanctions against our people. Where were
> you when Pol Pot, the monster you helped to create rose to power and killing
> millions of people. And we tried to stop Pol Pot, but you allied with the
> chinese communist and Pol Pot against us. So, tell me a good reason why we
> should help you fight against the chinese communist or terrorism.


Richard is no blah blah! He said it very very well indeed
The reason?
The most obvious one could simply be the US market, an immense and
lucrative market for Vietnamese products, its technical know-how and
naturally, its financial capability.
Even with its mighty dollar, the US did not seem to get what it is
asking for with countries such as Turkey or India, but with fairness,
the US might be able to get what it is asking for with Vietnam.
What else would one hope for?

On 27 Sep 2003 1008 -0700, hbui99@msn.com (hbui) wrote:

>"Richard" wrote in message news:...
>> >>>
>> Vietnam should NEVER be a strategic partner of the USA against China
>> but could be a partnr of the USA against World Terrorism.
>> China is too close and GOD and Uncle Sam too far
>> >>>>
>>
>> Did you see an incredible irony? Uncle Sam said the reason to fight the
>> vietnam war was to stop the communist chinese from spreading farther south.
>> So, we fought against the North Vietnamese and the vietnamese people to stop
>> the chinese communist. 30 years later, we still want to stop and contain
>> the chinese communist. This time, we come to Vietnam, a country which we
>> said threatened the security of Southeat asia to beg them for cooperation
>> against the chinese and terrorism. I wish the vietnamese would ask uncle
>> sam these: what did have done for me? You bombed my country to the stone
>> age with twice the amount of bombs dropped in WW II. You sprayed my country
>> with 72 million liters of herbicides and assumed no responsiblity what so
>> ever. You imposed the toughest sanctions against our people. Where were
>> you when Pol Pot, the monster you helped to create rose to power and killing
>> millions of people. And we tried to stop Pol Pot, but you allied with the
>> chinese communist and Pol Pot against us. So, tell me a good reason why we
>> should help you fight against the chinese communist or terrorism.
>
>
>Richard is no blah blah! He said it very very well indeed
>The reason?
>The most obvious one could simply be the US market, an immense and
>lucrative market for Vietnamese products, its technical know-how and
>naturally, its financial capability.
>Even with its mighty dollar, the US did not seem to get what it is
>asking for with countries such as Turkey or India, but with fairness,
>the US might be able to get what it is asking for with Vietnam.
>What else would one hope for?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Little Richard failed to understand Vietnam History and that's why
he'd made such comments in expressing his points of view.

China's dreams of become a dominant superpower in Asia in the past and
at present time is a real threat its neighbors and to world peace.


Pooh

>>>
Nope.

All I see is an incredible ignorance of documented history.
>>>>

You are right. You cannot see any irony or history anyway because 50 years
ago we handed the Vietnamese all of our glories, histories, and prides.
What is left of us to see when we don't see our sin.

>>>>
The most obvious one could simply be the US market, an immense and
lucrative market for Vietnamese products, its technical know-how and
naturally, its financial capability.
Even with its mighty dollar,
>>>>

I agree that the Vietnamese benefits a lot since it signed a bilateral trade
agreement with Uncle Sam in 2000. Since then, Vietnam's garment(clothing)
export to the U.S has gone from 45 million dollar a year to today(2003) more
than 2 billion dollars . But for how long? Just like the catfish issue,
just when the Vietnamese catfish took about 30% of all catfish sold in the
U.S, Uncle Sam said the Vietnamese's catfish is not catfish, and prohibited
vietnam from selling catfish under the name catfish. Uncle Sam also imposed
steep quota and tarriff on the vietnamese catfish, up to 60%. Now, it is
the garment issue, the same shit. Uncle sam said strong vietnamese garment
export to the u.s hurted u.s garment industry and Uncle Sam imposed a limit
of less than 2.3 billion dollar export of Vietnamese garment this year to
the U.S. Uncle sam does not even know that it does not even have a garment
industry in the U.S because most of american's garment factories have
shipped to mexico and china. As much I support free trade and capitalism,
but that is the truth bliss of capitalism. 50 years ago, America lost its
political principle to Vietnam when Vietnam asked for U.S support for
independence from colonial France. 50 years later, America lost its
economic principle to Vietnam as well when America treated Vietnam with
these rediculous trade rules. America alway preaches Vietnam the rule of
laws, democracy and free trade. Vietnam asked for the rule of law
,democracy and free trade and even practiced them. However, Vietnam is
betrayed by the preacher it looked up to. In other words, the what the
fuck does Uncle Sam want vietnam to do?

>>>>
the US did not seem to get what it is
asking for with countries such as Turkey or India, but with fairness,
the US might be able to get what it is asking for with Vietnam.
What else would one hope for?
>>>>

Uncle sam has been asking vietnam to let united states navy dock ships at
Vietnam's cam ranh naval base for years, and the vietnamese has said no many
times. However, I am afraid Uncle sam will eventually have its way,
especially the increase of reformers and pro-american leaders in the
vietnamese government will give their way, possibly due to strong american
incentive like billions of dollars in loans, enormous enomomic or miliary
aids.

Cam Ranh Naval base is extremly important to American's security threats
such as a nuclear war with North Korea,if China-Taiwan conflict exploded,
and to fight terrorism in southeast asia. Consider these for example:

American stations about 100,000 troops on japan. Several weeks ago, a super
typoon(165m/h) hit island of okinawa where more than 40,000 u.s troops
stationed. A few days ago, one the strongest earthquake on earth recorded
this year hit the northern islands of Japan. Japan is on top of major
plates bounderies where major volcano and earthquake are frequent. U.S
troops station in japan are well within North Korea's hundreds of short
range ballistic missiles armed with nuclear weapons.

Just to the east of Okinawa, there are more than 500 chinese short range
ballistic missiles pointing at taiwan and u.s forces on okinawa should the
american intervene to help taiwan when the chinese wants to reunite taiwan
by forces.

Down south in southeast asia, u.s subic base in the phillippine was blew up
by a giganic volcano eruption. The rest of southeast asian countries except
vietnam are on top of major plate bounderies where earthquake, super typoon,
and huge volcanic eruption are frequent. On top of these, radical islamic
bombing seem to occur everyday. Maintain a U.S military base in these
countries is very danger. Morever, these governments of these southeast
asian nations are almost fall apart. The phillippine face radical islamic
groups who is fighting for independence. The phillippine defense minister
just call it quit. and the phillipine army is suspect of aiding radical
islamic groups to kipnap western tourist. The same shit everywhere in
indonesia, malaysia, brunie, and singapore.

That is why donald rumfeld and the pentagon are determined to have Vietnam
as american's last strong hold, safest place, most stable government to
maintain u.s influence in east asia should vietnam become a strong u.s ally.
I can post a picture of cam ranh and explain why it is important, but I got
to look for it. Howver, should vietnam becomes a strong u.s ally, and
allowing u.s forces to used cam ranh naval base, there is a very heavy price
the vietnames may have to pay first before that happen.