Tiger Force atrocities???
 

Here in Europe, the main newspaper Ive been reading is the Herald Tribune
Todays headline is about a "Tiger Force allegedly stationed in the Central Highlands in 1967; They are quoting a newspaper called the Blade fron somewhere in Ohio, believe its in Cincinnati.
There is a long story about this unit commiting atrocities--its the good old "Everybody wore a necklace of ears and fingers" stuff. Evidently, according to the story, these people committed many atrocities, egged on by their leaders. They were supposed to force the local people to leava their lands to go to refugee canps and often executed them if they did not--the article talks of hundreds of atrocities committed and talks further about an Army investigation that ended in the mid 70s
I don't hav the article with me as I write, left it back in the hotel, but the article implies that its big news back in the USA. A google search finds nothing about it but you can find the article at
http://www.iht.com/articles/114376.html

The whole thing sounds like a bunch of bullsht to me--I spent over 6 months in the central highlands as a lrrp from late 67 to APR 68 and I never HEARD of these people there--it was all lrrps and SF (Yes and 4th Div, Ron, they held our packs 'lol}; The only tiger force I ever heard of was the 1st/327/101st battalion recon team, a platoon.I served in ACo/1st/327 as a grunt and I know for a fact that this unit was not in the area described at the time described. This just could not be or I'm completely nuts-- I know for sure that during early 67--at least from April 67 when I joined the 1st/327, that Tiger Force, the recon unit, was working with the rest of the unit around Duc Pho in Quang Ngai province which is a loooooong way from the central Highlands and they were doing recon, not village eradication
I know this: I never saw anyone with a necklace of ears and fingers and anyone who wore one in any of the units I ever served with or anyone who did such things would have been drummed out of the unit and I mean pronto. For one thing body parts stink after not too long. For another, the people I served with were not the atrocity committing kind, just some kickass soldiers.
Friscokid: I know you were in the 101 while they were in the Central Highlands--did you ever HEAr of this stuff? A good buddy of mine went into tiger force about the same time I went LRRP and I met him later in Bragg--He wound up as the E6 platoon sgt of tigers, starting in Nam as a pfc--he never talked about this stuff and I can't imagine him doing this stuff-- this is not the 101st I knew at all
Packo, if your reading this you might ask Dan--bet he says he never heard of this either
So what do you guys think?? complete bullsht or where theres smoke theres fire? I vote for the bullsht aspect. Is this getting any play in the US??


James

Hey exlurrp
 

MontanaKid here. The story is getting a lot of play here. It's a series in four parts in the Toledo (OH) Blade and most papers and broadcast news are picking up through the Associated Press. The alleged incidents did happen in Quang Ngai and Quang Tin Provinces. The newspaper has misidentified the area as part of the Central Highlands. They have also misidentified the old Quang Tin Province as "Quang Nam." So they lack some background on the war and Vietnam. None of the reporters is old enough to be a veteran of the war. The Quang Nam mistake is easy to make for one who does not research deep enough into the war. The old Quang Tin Province, with Tam Ky as its capital, is now part of Quang Nam. The communist government combined the two provinces shortly after they took charge. Danang was capital of Quang Nam and was originally made capital of the combined province. But the goverment has made Danang an independent city government and the capital of the combined province is now back in Tam Ky.
As we know, the "Central Highlands" as they were regarded in the Vietnam War, were in II Corps, not I Corps, where Quang Nam and Quang Tin provinces are.
What you say seems to confirm what I originally suspected. Though they describe Tiger Force as some kind of super-elite, hand-picked bully-boy unit, it did appear to me that they were probably no more than the Echo Company, Recon Platoon that every infantry battalion had. In our battalion, you did have to be a line company vet to be in recon. They didn't assign FNGs to Recon. But to make them out to be some kind of specially-trained elite force seems to be a stretch. I'm following this and will do some National Archives searching myself.

James
 

One of our LTs was a sick dude. He orderd us to cut off the heads of some dead VC that walked into our ambush. I didn't take part. Our Machine gunner cut one off with his mashettie and put it on his sholder, He said "look, two heads are better than one" We took the heads with us and through them away down the trail somewhere, It was a superstition that they couldn't go to heaven unless there head was attached? I just thought it was sick. but like most things that went on, you just didn't say anything. Our interperetor was going to start a ear neclkless, he cut one off, and the LT made him through it away.


Ron

I think this story is a little bit Hollywood make believe i.e. "Apocalypse Now" mixed with a few accounts of vets by reporters trying to fabricate a story for the press."A little knowledge is a dangerous thing" :x:

LIKE JAMES SAID,
 

this is NOT the 101st that I knew. I'm wondering if this isn't some vets enhancing some war stories for some reporters. If this was going on at the scale stated, I can't believe this could have been kept quiet within the battalion, not even getting into the rumor mills that the Army is famous for.

I too, never saw any necklaces of ears or fingers. Like James said, who the Hell would want to smell rotting flesh hanging around your neck, assuming the officers or NCOs would permit it. I'm labeling this "BULLSHIT" until something more confirmed as documented surfaces. :d:

Read this yesterday
 

in the Beaufort paper. I felt right away that it sounded like made up stuff.....the ear necklaces etc. Nobody I know would have done that and it was not permissable. Anyway, I couldn't wait to see this on the P-files. Dan has to work in Hilton Head all next week so he will be staying in Beaufort. We will certainly have a discussion about this.

I agree with Frisco et.al that this sounds a little bit like embellishment on the part of some. Wasn't 101 but can't believe these guys just went around killing villagers. The article I read said that there had been "wink, wink" investigations, all inconclusive.

Nice to see the Montana Kid on board again. Welcome home.

Since the statute of limitations is supposedly up on this, would love to hear from any of these "real Tigers". Watch for the phoney's to jump on this, and now a bunch of homeless "combat vets" will claim to have been these infamous "Tigers". Anyone wanna bet?

Packo

I agree with Kid and Paco -

Wouldn`t touch that bet,Packo!Did I ever mention that I was Tiger Force?

Hi guys
 

I commented on this over in Larrys post--just can't understand this-- think its a little resume inflation to justfy PTSD claims or possibly a book

I know what I did and didn't see and did and didnt do and I think people aho know me will say tht I would say it happened if it did but it didnt

Packo say hi to Dan for me, I'll drop him a line when I get back from Europe

James

did you know Dan Clint?? he was with me in A Co/1sr/327 before he went to the Tigers, this would have been summer of 67

James

Re: Hey exlurrp
 

A REAL stretch!! I knew these people, knew where they operated

They were just grunts out of the field with no special training that I know of--as for thr beards, in the 101 they gave you shaving stuff and soap maybe every 2 weeks whether you neded it or not

they are certainly talking about Operation Roundup here which did move people out of their homes into refugee camps-- theres a lot to say about it but I never saw a civilian killed and I was right in the middle of this-- so was our friend Dan, Packo, ask him what he thought of it
later
James

Re: Hi guys
 

I, of course know SFA about all this... however........

I just read a book called FOUR BLIND MICE by James Patterson. I read the book but kept in mind that it is fiction.

Anywho... just thought it rather strange that this book and the content of this thread is about similar stuff.....

Susan

Sue
 

Your from the great white north? Bet your south of Barrow.

Ron

James
 

That was meant to be a joke...About me and Tiger Force.To re-enforce Packo`s comment.

Griz,
 

My wife used to call me a real Tiger,
Now I'm just a pussy cat.

Is this what all this Tiger Force talk is all about?

Keith :D

I'm so confused?

James
 

Will definately bring this up with Dan and show him the thread when he gets here. Will also say "hey!" for ya.

Enjoy Euorope.....looks like you haveing a ball. We just traveled to another country ourselves. Erwin Tennessee where they hung the elephant, Murderous Mary.

Packo

Re: James
 

thanks pack

yo dan, if yr reading this: stay good--I'll send you an update sitrep on the Vietnam Victory tour 2003 when I get back

Above the rest!!!

James

Re: Sue
 

South of Barrow??? Where that be????

:ek::ek::ek:it tried to snow here today ewwwwwwwwwww!

:D

I was one of them Recondo Ranger Seals after I won the Medal of Honor and transferred outa the Green Berets. Did seven tours, man, and kil't more gooks than Mexicans got beans. ;)

I guess it's no secret some were taking trophies, counting coup, whatever you want to call it. Never made much sense to me, but there it is. Sure as shit never saw anyone wearing body parts for jewellery though. Then again, I had a cot to sleep in and never humped a day in my life, so I know about as much about what really happened out there as Mr. and Mrs. Jones in Cleveland.

Tigers
 

There is no doubt those guys did a few things outside the box, that really isn't all that uncommon in war. However, an ear necklace? Does anyone remember it being rather warm in Vietnam? Anyone been around dead bodies much? Now think about rotting human flesh tied around your neck, not to mention all the extra bugs you would attract. The story has a bad smell.

Stay healthy,
Andy

Necklaces
 

I never saw an ear necklace in Vietnam either. I never witnessed a mutilation of any body iby American troops in Vietnam. Our recon platoon, (What is it about these recon guys?) recovered a human skull from one of their old ambush sites. It had an entry hole right on top of the skull and they had it at company HQ in LZ Professional with a conical hat on top, until battlion made them take it out and bury it. the 1/501 and 1/502 of the 101st came into our AO May throuh July came into our AO to assist us in the Mothers Day Offensive, We were actually made op-con to the 101st for that time. Never saw ear necklaces on them either. I've never even seen a photograph of such a thing. I think it is one of those Vietnam myths.

176th AHC guns platoon had a skull. I think it went by the name of "Mother Musket". It was used with a bottle of firewater in initiations. I'm assuming it was something they acquired rather than created, but I don't know. Maybe someone here remembers it?

Too hardcore for me. :D

Grasshopper
 

At the top of the world


Ron

This whole thing sounds like a "Wannabee" story to me. I can't imagine wearing a necklace of ears in that climate. I'd heard guys where I worked telling war stories about having "Finger Necklaces" and after going the SF-180 route and getting their records I'd find out that they were Helicopter Mechanics and other MOS's that would be found in the rear. One of our "Resident War Heroes" told such outlandish stories that I just had to call him on it. He didn't know that I'd been a rifle company commander in the same Brigade where he had been a mechanic. What really tore it was when he said he went out on patrol with my company!

It's too bad that the Marine, lerp, Seal, and reserve sgt major, I used to work with got transfered. I never thought to ask him if he had one of them ear neglaces. I'll bet he did.

I did see a couple of dead charlies proped up a long side the road with a beer can in their hand along route 1 during tet. another one hanging from a tri pod in the perimeter wire. They were turning kind of green. I think the Marines in these CAP units were just trying to send a mesage to the local VC.

Wasn't going to comment on this cause it still seems strange. When I took over the platoon I heard one guy had an ear collection , he showed me a couple he had "curing" I told him to stop and told every one no mutilation. They might have done some before cause my CO kept telling me to make sure there was no mutilation. Some times , after a heavy contact , it was very hard not to mutilate them - minutes before they were trying to kill you and now you were standing over their boby - I think it's a very primitive urge almost like a celebration of life. Like Splummer saw they would sit them up and put cigarettes and beer cans in their hands and take pictures. If there was more than one body we would stack them up and put a frag with a smoke fuse under the bottom guy and set up a ways away. Always smiled when I heard the pop of the frag that night. Murderous days and nights.

DMZ!!!!!
 

If you had folks in your plt., that wanted to do what has been described, they must not have been taught, after action procedures. Or, maybe they should have been Sectioned 8, if that's all they had to do after a battle!!!!!
SF
NC

I saw or heard of nothing near what was portrayed in the articles. However, my short stint with the 3/22 ( leg unit) included a week at FSB Crook where there was an NVA human wave attack about 6 months earlier with some 600 or more dead. I noticed somone had put a human skull ( clean ) up on the barbed wire. I didn't ask any questions. A few months later near one of our hard spots, in the road were three dead VC or NVA. One of them appeared to have been hit in the head with an unexploded M-79 round. There were three ARVNs taking a whiz on his skull. As for killing civilians ( outside of a free-fire zone ) or mutilating bodies, didn't see or hear of it.

Larry

Some "Muskets" guns go through the initiation ceremony.

Another... (pictures shameless thiefed from the 176th AHC website).

LT
 

I, too, saw this done a couple of times. Posing dead NVA/VC for a Kodak moment. Always thought it would bring bad luck. Didn't go for messing with the dead much. Superstitious Irishman.

The 101st sometimes issued us a deck of cards. They were all ace of spades, with the 101st Screaming Eagle on the back. We would leave them as calling cards on bodies. The ace of spades was supposedly a bad luck sign of sorts. Playing head games with Chuck. I don't know how good this worked. I don't think we intimidated them as much as we hoped. They usually seemed more than willing to bring the fight to us. Especially the NVA Regulars. Any other units do this?

Tom , Showed Andy the Pith Helmet I brought home with the ace of spades on it when he was here. They dropped us stuff to. Calanders with - not one more day here.

Kill cards/death cards were used by many US combat units 1965-66. The attached gif file depicts a scan of one side of the kill card used by the Legendary Chinese Bandit Recon LRRP Team and Recon 1st Bn (ABN) 8th Cav circa 1966.