Re: What medal Bush? Bush Never Smeared ALL Nam Vets As Baby Killers Like Kerry Did.
 

Perry <perrymarlin@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 04:43:43 GMT, "Ted Gittinger"
><tgittingerbounce@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Doug Reese" <dreese@erols.com> wrote in message
>>news:402c11eb$0$3172$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...
>>> Perry <perrymarlin@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> >On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:56:06 -0700, Lone Haranguer
>>> ><linusz@direcway.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >>Perry wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 14:51:22 GMT, "Van Helsing" <Van
>>> >>> Helsing@alucard.com> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>>On 11-Feb-2004, hanoijanekerry@yahoo.ca (Hanoi Jane Kerry) wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>>Real GIs were too busy fighting the JFKs war or were already dead but
>>> >>>>>Kerry smeared them too.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>Actually it was Eisenhower's war. He sent in the first "advisors"
>>(12) not
>>> >>>>JFK!
>>> >>>
>>> >>> sending advisors does not make it a war. When you put combat forces in
>>> >>> it does, that honor goes to LBJ.
>>> >>
>>> >>We already had advisors there under Truman, teaching the French how to
>>> >>fly the B-26. You can find their memoirs in 13th Bomb Sqdn newsletters.
>>> >>LZ
>>> >you really want to dig, we had advisors to Ho Chi Mhin back during
>>> >WWII under FDR.
>>>
>>> To say nothing of when the Marines landed in Danang -- the FIRST time!
>>>
>>> Doug
>>
>>Now Doug, you cut that out. You know damned well that you are in another
>>century. The poor sod can't even spell Ho Chi Minh.
>>
>>He is talking about Lulu Conein and the Deer Teams. Sure he is.
>>
>>ted
>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>no genius I was thinking about Major Patti OSS officer and his
>relationship with Ho Chi Minh towards the end of WWII. Using the term
>advisor may not have been the correct term.

OK, I'll take issue with both of you, sort of.

Those who had a one-on-one relationship with HCM IN Vietnam were the seven Deer
Team members. Conin (sp?) and Patti weren't among them. Both were involved back
then, but in different ways.

Three or four of the Deer Team members are still with us, by the way.

Doug

Re: What medal Bush? Bush Never Smeared ALL Nam Vets As Baby Killers Like Kerry Did.
 

"Doug Reese" <dreese@erols.com> wrote in message
news:402c67da$0$3138$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...
> Perry <perrymarlin@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 04:43:43 GMT, "Ted Gittinger"
> ><tgittingerbounce@austin.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>"Doug Reese" <dreese@erols.com> wrote in message
> >>news:402c11eb$0$3172$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...
> >>> Perry <perrymarlin@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>> >On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:56:06 -0700, Lone Haranguer
> >>> ><linusz@direcway.com> wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> >>Perry wrote:
> >>> >>
> >>> >>> On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 14:51:22 GMT, "Van Helsing" <Van
> >>> >>> Helsing@alucard.com> wrote:
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>>>On 11-Feb-2004, hanoijanekerry@yahoo.ca (Hanoi Jane Kerry) wrote:
> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>>>>Real GIs were too busy fighting the JFKs war or were already dead
but
> >>> >>>>>Kerry smeared them too.
> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>>>Actually it was Eisenhower's war. He sent in the first "advisors"
> >>(12) not
> >>> >>>>JFK!
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> sending advisors does not make it a war. When you put combat
forces in
> >>> >>> it does, that honor goes to LBJ.
> >>> >>
> >>> >>We already had advisors there under Truman, teaching the French how
to
> >>> >>fly the B-26. You can find their memoirs in 13th Bomb Sqdn
newsletters.
> >>> >>LZ
> >>> >you really want to dig, we had advisors to Ho Chi Mhin back during
> >>> >WWII under FDR.
> >>>
> >>> To say nothing of when the Marines landed in Danang -- the FIRST time!
> >>>
> >>> Doug
> >>
> >>Now Doug, you cut that out. You know damned well that you are in
another
> >>century. The poor sod can't even spell Ho Chi Minh.
> >>
> >>He is talking about Lulu Conein and the Deer Teams. Sure he is.
> >>
> >>ted
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >no genius I was thinking about Major Patti OSS officer and his
> >relationship with Ho Chi Minh towards the end of WWII. Using the term
> >advisor may not have been the correct term.
>
> OK, I'll take issue with both of you, sort of.
>
> Those who had a one-on-one relationship with HCM IN Vietnam were the seven
Deer
> Team members. Conin (sp?) and Patti weren't among them. Both were involved
back
> then, but in different ways.
>
> Three or four of the Deer Team members are still with us, by the way.
>
> Doug

Conein was with the Deer Teams, by his testimony. Which may, of course, be
contradicted.

ted
>
>

Re: What medal Bush? Bush Never Smeared ALL Nam Vets As Baby Killers Like Kerry Did.
 

"Ted Gittinger" <tgittingerbounce@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>
>"Doug Reese" <dreese@erols.com> wrote in message
>news:402c67da$0$3138$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...
>> Perry <perrymarlin@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 04:43:43 GMT, "Ted Gittinger"
>> ><tgittingerbounce@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >>"Doug Reese" <dreese@erols.com> wrote in message
>> >>news:402c11eb$0$3172$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...
>> >>> Perry <perrymarlin@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >>> >On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:56:06 -0700, Lone Haranguer
>> >>> ><linusz@direcway.com> wrote:
>> >>> >
>> >>> >>Perry wrote:
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>> On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 14:51:22 GMT, "Van Helsing" <Van
>> >>> >>> Helsing@alucard.com> wrote:
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>>>On 11-Feb-2004, hanoijanekerry@yahoo.ca (Hanoi Jane Kerry) wrote:
>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>>>>Real GIs were too busy fighting the JFKs war or were already dead
>but
>> >>> >>>>>Kerry smeared them too.
>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>>>Actually it was Eisenhower's war. He sent in the first "advisors"
>> >>(12) not
>> >>> >>>>JFK!
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> sending advisors does not make it a war. When you put combat
>forces in
>> >>> >>> it does, that honor goes to LBJ.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>We already had advisors there under Truman, teaching the French how
>to
>> >>> >>fly the B-26. You can find their memoirs in 13th Bomb Sqdn
>newsletters.
>> >>> >>LZ
>> >>> >you really want to dig, we had advisors to Ho Chi Mhin back during
>> >>> >WWII under FDR.
>> >>>
>> >>> To say nothing of when the Marines landed in Danang -- the FIRST time!
>> >>>
>> >>> Doug
>> >>
>> >>Now Doug, you cut that out. You know damned well that you are in
>another
>> >>century. The poor sod can't even spell Ho Chi Minh.
>> >>
>> >>He is talking about Lulu Conein and the Deer Teams. Sure he is.
>> >>
>> >>ted
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >no genius I was thinking about Major Patti OSS officer and his
>> >relationship with Ho Chi Minh towards the end of WWII. Using the term
>> >advisor may not have been the correct term.
>>
>> OK, I'll take issue with both of you, sort of.
>>
>> Those who had a one-on-one relationship with HCM IN Vietnam were the seven
>Deer
>> Team members. Conin (sp?) and Patti weren't among them. Both were involved
>back
>> then, but in different ways.
>>
>> Three or four of the Deer Team members are still with us, by the way.
>>
>> Doug
>
>Conein was with the Deer Teams, by his testimony. Which may, of course, be
>contradicted.
>
>ted

I'm sure he was. I should have been specific. I was talking about the Deer
Team that dropped into Vietnam in July 1945, and who worked with HCM and
his schoolteacher buddy, and helped train their ragtag band until the
August Revolution in, well, August.

Doug

Re: What medal Bush? Bush Never Smeared ALL Nam Vets As Baby Killers Like Kerry Did.
 

"Doug Reese" <dreese@erols.com> wrote in message
news:402e1821$0$3087$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...
> "Ted Gittinger" <tgittingerbounce@austin.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> >"Doug Reese" <dreese@erols.com> wrote in message
> >news:402c67da$0$3138$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...
> >> Perry <perrymarlin@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> >On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 04:43:43 GMT, "Ted Gittinger"
> >> ><tgittingerbounce@austin.rr.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>"Doug Reese" <dreese@erols.com> wrote in message
> >> >>news:402c11eb$0$3172$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...
> >> >>> Perry <perrymarlin@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>> >On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:56:06 -0700, Lone Haranguer
> >> >>> ><linusz@direcway.com> wrote:
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >>Perry wrote:
> >> >>> >>
> >> >>> >>> On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 14:51:22 GMT, "Van Helsing" <Van
> >> >>> >>> Helsing@alucard.com> wrote:
> >> >>> >>>
> >> >>> >>>
> >> >>> >>>>On 11-Feb-2004, hanoijanekerry@yahoo.ca (Hanoi Jane Kerry)
wrote:
> >> >>> >>>>
> >> >>> >>>>
> >> >>> >>>>>Real GIs were too busy fighting the JFKs war or were already
dead
> >but
> >> >>> >>>>>Kerry smeared them too.
> >> >>> >>>>
> >> >>> >>>>Actually it was Eisenhower's war. He sent in the first
"advisors"
> >> >>(12) not
> >> >>> >>>>JFK!
> >> >>> >>>
> >> >>> >>> sending advisors does not make it a war. When you put combat
> >forces in
> >> >>> >>> it does, that honor goes to LBJ.
> >> >>> >>
> >> >>> >>We already had advisors there under Truman, teaching the French
how
> >to
> >> >>> >>fly the B-26. You can find their memoirs in 13th Bomb Sqdn
> >newsletters.
> >> >>> >>LZ
> >> >>> >you really want to dig, we had advisors to Ho Chi Mhin back during
> >> >>> >WWII under FDR.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> To say nothing of when the Marines landed in Danang -- the FIRST
time!
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Doug
> >> >>
> >> >>Now Doug, you cut that out. You know damned well that you are in
> >another
> >> >>century. The poor sod can't even spell Ho Chi Minh.
> >> >>
> >> >>He is talking about Lulu Conein and the Deer Teams. Sure he is.
> >> >>
> >> >>ted
> >> >>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >no genius I was thinking about Major Patti OSS officer and his
> >> >relationship with Ho Chi Minh towards the end of WWII. Using the term
> >> >advisor may not have been the correct term.
> >>
> >> OK, I'll take issue with both of you, sort of.
> >>
> >> Those who had a one-on-one relationship with HCM IN Vietnam were the
seven
> >Deer
> >> Team members. Conin (sp?) and Patti weren't among them. Both were
involved
> >back
> >> then, but in different ways.
> >>
> >> Three or four of the Deer Team members are still with us, by the way.
> >>
> >> Doug
> >
> >Conein was with the Deer Teams, by his testimony. Which may, of course,
be
> >contradicted.
> >
> >ted
>
> I'm sure he was. I should have been specific. I was talking about the Deer
> Team that dropped into Vietnam in July 1945, and who worked with HCM and
> his schoolteacher buddy, and helped train their ragtag band until the
> August Revolution in, well, August.
>
> Doug

Yeppers, that would include Conein. The word is that he got picked because
he was bilingual in French, and was jump-qualified.

ted
>
>

Re: What medal Bush? Bush Never Smeared ALL Nam Vets As Baby Killers Like Kerry Did.
 

"Ted Gittinger" <tgittingerbounce@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>
>"Doug Reese" <dreese@erols.com> wrote in message
>news:402e1821$0$3087$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...
>> "Ted Gittinger" <tgittingerbounce@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >"Doug Reese" <dreese@erols.com> wrote in message
>> >news:402c67da$0$3138$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...
>> >> Perry <perrymarlin@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 04:43:43 GMT, "Ted Gittinger"
>> >> ><tgittingerbounce@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >>"Doug Reese" <dreese@erols.com> wrote in message
>> >> >>news:402c11eb$0$3172$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...
>> >> >>> Perry <perrymarlin@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>> >On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:56:06 -0700, Lone Haranguer
>> >> >>> ><linusz@direcway.com> wrote:
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> >>Perry wrote:
>> >> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >>> On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 14:51:22 GMT, "Van Helsing" <Van
>> >> >>> >>> Helsing@alucard.com> wrote:
>> >> >>> >>>
>> >> >>> >>>
>> >> >>> >>>>On 11-Feb-2004, hanoijanekerry@yahoo.ca (Hanoi Jane Kerry)
>wrote:
>> >> >>> >>>>
>> >> >>> >>>>
>> >> >>> >>>>>Real GIs were too busy fighting the JFKs war or were already
>dead
>> >but
>> >> >>> >>>>>Kerry smeared them too.
>> >> >>> >>>>
>> >> >>> >>>>Actually it was Eisenhower's war. He sent in the first
>"advisors"
>> >> >>(12) not
>> >> >>> >>>>JFK!
>> >> >>> >>>
>> >> >>> >>> sending advisors does not make it a war. When you put combat
>> >forces in
>> >> >>> >>> it does, that honor goes to LBJ.
>> >> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >>We already had advisors there under Truman, teaching the French
>how
>> >to
>> >> >>> >>fly the B-26. You can find their memoirs in 13th Bomb Sqdn
>> >newsletters.
>> >> >>> >>LZ
>> >> >>> >you really want to dig, we had advisors to Ho Chi Mhin back during
>> >> >>> >WWII under FDR.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> To say nothing of when the Marines landed in Danang -- the FIRST
>time!
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Doug
>> >> >>
>> >> >>Now Doug, you cut that out. You know damned well that you are in
>> >another
>> >> >>century. The poor sod can't even spell Ho Chi Minh.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>He is talking about Lulu Conein and the Deer Teams. Sure he is.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>ted
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >no genius I was thinking about Major Patti OSS officer and his
>> >> >relationship with Ho Chi Minh towards the end of WWII. Using the term
>> >> >advisor may not have been the correct term.
>> >>
>> >> OK, I'll take issue with both of you, sort of.
>> >>
>> >> Those who had a one-on-one relationship with HCM IN Vietnam were the
>seven
>> >Deer
>> >> Team members. Conin (sp?) and Patti weren't among them. Both were
>involved
>> >back
>> >> then, but in different ways.
>> >>
>> >> Three or four of the Deer Team members are still with us, by the way.
>> >>
>> >> Doug
>> >
>> >Conein was with the Deer Teams, by his testimony. Which may, of course,
>be
>> >contradicted.
>> >
>> >ted
>>
>> I'm sure he was. I should have been specific. I was talking about the Deer
>> Team that dropped into Vietnam in July 1945, and who worked with HCM and
>> his schoolteacher buddy, and helped train their ragtag band until the
>> August Revolution in, well, August.
>>
>> Doug
>
>Yeppers, that would include Conein. The word is that he got picked because
>he was bilingual in French, and was jump-qualified.

If you're saying "yes" to him being with the Deer Team I just mentioned -- he wasn't
with them. There were three who were dropped at the last minute because they were French
and/or French military, but he wasn't one of them either.

The seven who went on that particular team were -- PFC Henry Prunier (interpreter),
1stSgt William Zielski (radio operator), Staff Sgt. Lawrence Vogt (weapons instructor),
PFC Paul Hoaglund (a registered nurse, ergo, the medic), Sgt. Alan Squires
(photographer), 2nd Lt. Rene Defourneaux (XO) and Maj. Allison Thomas (XO).

There was another Deer Team that went into that same general area, but they were
captured by the Japanese. I'm pretty sure Coneine wasn't with them, as he was in Hanoi
at some point during all of this. I believe he arrived via plane, but I'm not sure. I
just know he wasn't with this particular Deer Team.

Doug

Source -- Rene Defourneaux

>ted
>>
>>
>
>

Re: What medal Bush? Bush Never Smeared ALL Nam Vets As Baby Killers Like Kerry Did.
 

Don't have the reference here; will try to forward this to the office.

ted


"Doug Reese" <dreese@erols.com> wrote in message
news:402e6feb$0$3075$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...
> "Ted Gittinger" <tgittingerbounce@austin.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> >"Doug Reese" <dreese@erols.com> wrote in message
> >news:402e1821$0$3087$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...
> >> "Ted Gittinger" <tgittingerbounce@austin.rr.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >"Doug Reese" <dreese@erols.com> wrote in message
> >> >news:402c67da$0$3138$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...
> >> >> Perry <perrymarlin@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 04:43:43 GMT, "Ted Gittinger"
> >> >> ><tgittingerbounce@austin.rr.com> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>"Doug Reese" <dreese@erols.com> wrote in message
> >> >> >>news:402c11eb$0$3172$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...
> >> >> >>> Perry <perrymarlin@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >>> >On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:56:06 -0700, Lone Haranguer
> >> >> >>> ><linusz@direcway.com> wrote:
> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >>> >>Perry wrote:
> >> >> >>> >>
> >> >> >>> >>> On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 14:51:22 GMT, "Van Helsing" <Van
> >> >> >>> >>> Helsing@alucard.com> wrote:
> >> >> >>> >>>
> >> >> >>> >>>
> >> >> >>> >>>>On 11-Feb-2004, hanoijanekerry@yahoo.ca (Hanoi Jane Kerry)
> >wrote:
> >> >> >>> >>>>
> >> >> >>> >>>>
> >> >> >>> >>>>>Real GIs were too busy fighting the JFKs war or were
already
> >dead
> >> >but
> >> >> >>> >>>>>Kerry smeared them too.
> >> >> >>> >>>>
> >> >> >>> >>>>Actually it was Eisenhower's war. He sent in the first
> >"advisors"
> >> >> >>(12) not
> >> >> >>> >>>>JFK!
> >> >> >>> >>>
> >> >> >>> >>> sending advisors does not make it a war. When you put combat
> >> >forces in
> >> >> >>> >>> it does, that honor goes to LBJ.
> >> >> >>> >>
> >> >> >>> >>We already had advisors there under Truman, teaching the
French
> >how
> >> >to
> >> >> >>> >>fly the B-26. You can find their memoirs in 13th Bomb Sqdn
> >> >newsletters.
> >> >> >>> >>LZ
> >> >> >>> >you really want to dig, we had advisors to Ho Chi Mhin back
during
> >> >> >>> >WWII under FDR.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> To say nothing of when the Marines landed in Danang -- the FIRST
> >time!
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Doug
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>Now Doug, you cut that out. You know damned well that you are in
> >> >another
> >> >> >>century. The poor sod can't even spell Ho Chi Minh.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>He is talking about Lulu Conein and the Deer Teams. Sure he is.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>ted
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >no genius I was thinking about Major Patti OSS officer and his
> >> >> >relationship with Ho Chi Minh towards the end of WWII. Using the
term
> >> >> >advisor may not have been the correct term.
> >> >>
> >> >> OK, I'll take issue with both of you, sort of.
> >> >>
> >> >> Those who had a one-on-one relationship with HCM IN Vietnam were the
> >seven
> >> >Deer
> >> >> Team members. Conin (sp?) and Patti weren't among them. Both were
> >involved
> >> >back
> >> >> then, but in different ways.
> >> >>
> >> >> Three or four of the Deer Team members are still with us, by the
way.
> >> >>
> >> >> Doug
> >> >
> >> >Conein was with the Deer Teams, by his testimony. Which may, of
course,
> >be
> >> >contradicted.
> >> >
> >> >ted
> >>
> >> I'm sure he was. I should have been specific. I was talking about the
Deer
> >> Team that dropped into Vietnam in July 1945, and who worked with HCM
and
> >> his schoolteacher buddy, and helped train their ragtag band until the
> >> August Revolution in, well, August.
> >>
> >> Doug
> >
> >Yeppers, that would include Conein. The word is that he got picked
because
> >he was bilingual in French, and was jump-qualified.
>
> If you're saying "yes" to him being with the Deer Team I just mentioned --
he wasn't
> with them. There were three who were dropped at the last minute because
they were French
> and/or French military, but he wasn't one of them either.
>
> The seven who went on that particular team were -- PFC Henry Prunier
(interpreter),
> 1stSgt William Zielski (radio operator), Staff Sgt. Lawrence Vogt (weapons
instructor),
> PFC Paul Hoaglund (a registered nurse, ergo, the medic), Sgt. Alan Squires
> (photographer), 2nd Lt. Rene Defourneaux (XO) and Maj. Allison Thomas
(XO).
>
> There was another Deer Team that went into that same general area, but
they were
> captured by the Japanese. I'm pretty sure Coneine wasn't with them, as he
was in Hanoi
> at some point during all of this. I believe he arrived via plane, but I'm
not sure. I
> just know he wasn't with this particular Deer Team.
>
> Doug
>
> Source -- Rene Defourneaux
>
> >ted
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>